Monday, 6 November 2017

Texas

I was supposed to be publishing another stupid patient story today.  I didn't think I would be writing about this.  Again.  I thought the death of 58 innocent people in Las Vegas a month ago would be enough to stimulate the United States government to talk about gun control.  To at least get a conversation started.  I thought surely something, anything would happen, something would get done, some conversation would get initiated in Washington DC that would lead to some kind of change.

Then over the next few weeks, the furor over the shooting withered.  Then it died completely.  Instead of reading about potential gun control legislation, I read about a new US tax bill that was introduced.  Whoopdefucking doo.

And now there is yet another mass shooting in the US, this time in Texas.  As of this writing, at least 26 more innocent people are dead after a young man walked into a church and started shooting parishioners.  Among the victims are a 5-year-old, the 14-year-old daughter of the church's pastor, and a pregnant mother and three of her children.  As shocking as that may be, this isn't even the first mass church shooting in recent memory.

I'm going to repeat that in case you didn't get it the first time: THIS IS NOT EVEN THE FIRST MASS CHURCH SHOOTING IN THE PAST TWO YEARS.

How the hell is this possible?  How does the American government allow this to continue, time after time after time? 

Because the American public, and their government, just don't get it.  Within hours, gun nuts immediately piped up, defending their precious guns. 
This seems to be one of their favourites, especially after several people were run over in Edmonton a month ago, in Barcelona back in August, and in New York City a few days ago.  On the surface it seems like a valid argument.  But if you think about it a little deeper, the argument boils down to "Crazy people who want to kill will find a way to kill.  Either ban everything that can kill, or don't ban anything."

Really?  Is that the best you can do?  First of all, you need a licence, registration, and training to operate a car.  You need none of those things to buy a gun.  Of course you can steal a truck and use it for whatever nefarious purpose you choose, but that doesn't change the fact that you don't need a licence, registration, or training to buy a gun in the United States.  That is absolutely unconscionable.

Second of all, cars are essential for everyday life.  Guns are not.

Third of all, this guy didn't use a truck.  He used this:
Can anyone explain to me why an American citizen needs one of these.  Anyone?  Are you protecting your family from home invaders with one of these?  Are you hunting with one of these?  Are you going skeet shooting with one of these?  Oh, perhaps this is the reason:

Really?  REALLY?  Yes, that's how the second amendment reads, because that's what the second amendment was originally about.  But this is 2017, not 1791 when that amendment was written.  In 2017 the United States government has hundreds of thousands of soldiers in their army, navy, air force, and marines with the most high-tech weaponry on the planet.  Oh, and in case you didn't notice, they also have fucking drones.  You really think that rifle is going to protect you from drones?  Apparently he does:
Because according to gun fanatics, the solution isn't just more guns, it's more BIGGER guns.  I can't even muster an appropriate response to that.  I just can't.

Then there was this bit of singular stupidity:

I fed this through my Idiot to English Translation Engine, and this is what came out:
People break laws, so you may as well not even make laws. 
Which is quite possibly one of the stupidest arguments against gun control I have ever seen and much stupider than my imagination could have ever dreamed up.  Anarchy as the solution to crime.  Speechless.

So after two horrific mass shootings barely a month apart, surely US politicians are ready to talk about gun control, right?  Right?
Prayers?  These people were at church.  They already had prayers.  Prayers aren't going to stop mass shootings. 

And President Trump (I still can't believe that phrase is real) said this:
Mental health is your problem here.  This isn't a guns situation, this is a mental health problem at the highest level. It's a very, very sad event.
Mental health is the issue with any murder, because only an immoral waste of carbon and oxygen would murder another human being.  But if you give that waste of carbon and oxygen a gun, you make it much easier to take a life.

Or twenty six.

Or fifty eight.

113 comments:

  1. Doc you do need a gun license to legally own a gun. And a background check

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    1. You don't need a license at the federal level (only in about 1/3 of the states) and there are legal ways to buy a firearm without a background check in at least some states if you're buying it from another individual and not a licensed dealer.

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    2. As a follow-up, neither Texas nor Nevada (the sites of the two shootings Doc was talking about) require a license to purchase/own a firearm.

      You do need a license to carry a concealed weapon, but both are "shall issue" states that have only minimal restrictions on who can get such a license.

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    3. Forgot that about nevada and didnt know for texas.
      Ugh I may be for guns and all but thats way Way too loose

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    4. Where I live, we have gun shows where you can get guns from private owners with no check. We joke we just give out guns with happy meals here. You can just buy guns in Walmart here. It’s frustrating to be in a state that has such loose regulations. We’ve had a fair amount of shootings here too, and people just point to those saying they if more people carried they could have stopped the shooter, ergo if there were more guns we’d have no problem. Obviously.

      I’m all for responsible gun ownership, but right now we have nothing to even ensure that.

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    5. The problem with the Texas shooting is the US Air Force never entered the perpetrator's information in the the NCIC system from his court martial on domestic violence charges. Background checks are meaningless if the data in the system is garbage.

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  2. I think they should add regular mental health checks to getting and renewing your gjn license. Youll never get the legislation to take them all away (as in the last post I of course know that is not what you are saying doc) but it would at least help.

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    1. What is meant by a "mental health check"? Sending people to a therapist for some sort of okay slip before they can buy a gun?
      You're assuming these killers are delusional, that they don't know what they're doing. More often it's a sociopathic action - they're killing because they want to. Psychopathy isn't a mental illness, and it's difficult for even a professional to spot a psychopath. They are sane, in that they see the world clearly, are in touch with reality. They just don't care. They can fit into society, collect guns if they like, and their friends and family suspect nothing until something terrible happens. Mass murderers are able to commit horrific acts because they know just what they're doing.

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    2. Well there was the texas shooter in the 60s who was delusional from his brain tumor.
      Or the virginia tech shooter some years back who psychologists noted was jnstable and was stalking people on campus.
      Or...

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    3. Oh, there are absolutely some people - many killers, many mass murderers - who were mentally ill. I didn't mean to argue against that.
      There's just a lot of stigma related to mental illness, so it's unnerving to see it so often compared to horrific crimes. I wasn't trying to play the numbers game.

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    4. I had a friend in high school with schizophrenia. He was diagnosed whrn he was 8 if youd believe it. He had issues once came to class one morning and told me he had an episode the night before and saw blood coming from the walls. Did i think hed ever hurt me or others? Not likely. Would i ever trust him around a gun? ...no but I can say that about a lot of people. Still issues like schizophrenia typically manifest later in life and get worse and worse as time goes by, so no I definately wouldnt allow him to get a gun if I had the choice. (Note: around when he was first diagnosed he was basically catatonic schizophrenic in that he was almost completely unaware of the actual world around him)

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    5. Heartbreaking. No, he should stay away from guns, but more because of danger to himself than anyone else. I suppose that's the biggest reason to keep people with mental illness (severe/uncontrolled) away from guns: they make an impulsive act like suicide very easy.
      I am glad your friend was diagnosed so young. At that age, so often true torment is mistaken for just a weird kid who'll grow out of it.

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    6. Looked up statistics, and there's a good reason to keep people with uncontrolled mental illness away from guns. In the United States, more than 60% of gun deaths are suicides. That's a whole different direction than this blog, but I had no idea.

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    7. Last week my elderly neighbor got into a standoff with the cops because he called them saying he was going to kill himself. (Considering the shit hed been through...yeah...) the cops mnew him for one reason or another (as the cop who had his shotgun out in front of my house told us) and he also had numerous cops. Thankfully they defused the situation quickly

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    8. This only helps extreme cases, which are already restricted. Its a 2-3 month wait to see a mental health professional that most insurance refuses to cover. If you do get diagnosed, good luck affording medication for it. Then if you end up hospitalized because of an episode you’re looking at more debt than anyone can reasonably afford. A gun is cheaper and quicker, even for people who want to get help.

      The point is, no one would show up on a background check because they’re already restricted from seeing a doctor.

      Let that sink in, its easier to buy a gun than it is to see a doctor. Is it any surprise most gun deaths are suicides?

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  3. Sometimes a large percentage of the population of my native country really, really suck, and this is one of them. Unfortunately, I'm probably too old to emigrate to Canada, being over 40...don't suppose there's anyone in the UK or Ireland interested in taking in a refugee, is there? (We're not all crazy, I swear, but that 1/3 that's totally batshit crazy is making it nearly impossible for the other 2/3 of us to simply live, let alone run the country in any kind of reasonable manner; they've got their elected officials totally by what used to be their balls, and said officially really only care about getting elected and maintaining their hold on power not on the good of the country or the people in it. If it wasn't for my friends' children, I'd say the giant, planet-destroying comet can't come fast enough...)

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  4. If Sandy Hook - the mass murder of school children in an affluent, white part of the U.S. - couldn't bring lawmakers to action, nothing will for at least a generation.

    The problem is as much with feckless, corrupt lawmakers as it is with a woefully uninformed public that accepts the absolutist interpretation of the 2nd Amendment.

    The amendment was never about protection against a tyrannical government. It was to facilitate a militia for national defense in lieu of a standing army. The Constitution even gives the Congress power to fund or de-fund said militia.

    Though, yes, a standing army could become the *agent* of a tyrant (Oliver Cromwell being the figure that likely played most prominently to the Founding Fathers), arming the populace would not prevent that from happening nor enable an overthrow.

    Can anyone reasonably think that if Washington had decided to declare himself King George the First, with a fanatically devoted Continental Army backing him up, a bunch of farmers with muskets could have "won their freedom"?

    Where, as a non-American, I see the discussion get hijacked, is that mass shootings, horrific as they are, don't represent the full scope of carnage brought about my a total lack of gun control. It's the domestic abuse cases, the gangland shootings, toddler accidents, and suicides that pile up year after year after year. While guns are common to all of them, there might be room even among idiot politicians to find policies that make dents in the problem: mental health funding; giving commercial establishments the right to refuse entry; confiscation from convicted domestic abusers; etc. Anything is better than nothing, and the cultural zeitgeist will always change as time goes on.

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    1. To be fair at the time of the revolution the army was basically just taking the militias and just giving a military hierarchy to them all

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  5. I have read today that Trump canceled the law that banned people with mental health issues to buy guns. Is this true?
    Why don’t they ban the damn ammunition for these assault rifles?
    I am sick of people saying it’s their right to own guns. Nobody needs these assault rifles at all.

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    1. Because more often than not the ammuniyion for said assault rifles is standard ammo for several other guns.
      For example, lets say the ammo for a semi auto pistol is banned. But not the ammo for my revolver that uses the same ammo.
      Its not always the case (more often than not assault rifles require a special variant of a certain caliber) but still

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    2. yep, reduced the restrictions on mental health to buy a gun. because this is a mental health problem not a gun problem.

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    3. Its somewhere in between Ken. It almost always is.

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    4. guns don't kill people, but they make it a hell of a lot easier.

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  6. "If the second amendment wasn't restricted and citizens could own any type of firearm they wished we could overthrow a tyrannical government"

    Funny thing is, when looking at the typical pro-gun nuts (survivalists, private citizens and the like), I cannot help thinking they seem more likely to install a tyrannical government than to overthrow one.

    "People break laws, so you may as well not even make laws. "

    An interesting position coming from people usually clamouring for a more orderly society. People taking responsibility for their actions, facing the consequences, and so on...

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    1. well, they DID vote for Trump, so there's that.

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    2. Nail on head, Mr Brown. As a US citizen, something died in me when "alternative facts" entered our vernacular.

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  7. I was nearby that town yesterday, incredibly tragic event. I don't know what would solve this epidemic, but I do agree it has to involve some greater form of control. And as a Texan, I know it's an unpopular opinion around here. But, I also know law abiding gun owners would follow gun laws to keep what they have too.

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    1. let's start with a rule requiring safety training and proper storage to own a gun. that would help with the 1700 accidental deaths per year.

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    2. Like I said in the last blog post about guns-boy Im glad my father is a smart man.

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    3. I agree to both replies here! I'm lucky I was taught well, my son is being taught well, and I force my bf to keep his brother in check or don't let my son near their house (he doesn't always secure his guns ugh).

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  8. From what I understand, the guy fled after a civilian returned fire. I know I'll get hate for this, but I wonder how many more would have died if he was allowed to go on interrupted. I know for a fact the police would have taken at least 5 minutes to arrive, as I live less than a minute away from where the incident occurred, and am aware of response times in my area. I do believe we need stronger regulations on large firearms, such as the one he used, however in a place like Texas, with everything so spread out, it takes the authorities a little while to get here, and complete disarmament is impractical.

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    2. The shooter was fleeing when a civilian encountered him with a firearm. It's unclear whether or not the good samaritan fired the fatal shot. Regardless, the initial massacre should have never occurred. The USA isn't the only place with mental health issues. It's just the only place where there are more guns than people (and with more people incarcerated for non-violent crimes). Let's start a war on assault rifles.

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    3. Could have gone a different way if the police had shown up at the time the civilian got out his identical gun to shoot at the murderer. Possible results? two dead gunmen!

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    4. just a reminder that within a minute of that church is well within range of a stray bullet.

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    5. he was specifically targeting his ex wife's mother AT THAT CHURCH. and the shot that killed him was self inflicted.

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  9. Rational discourse is not a feature of your average gun nut (or as I like to call them, 'ammosexuals'). The NRA is stupidly powerful over stupid people. They'll vote for anyone (or against anyone not) endorsed by the NRA.

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    1. LOL; can I use your definition of gun nut? Wonderful!

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  10. I think that the frequency of shootings in the US (compared to other countries, or at all) actually disproves that it is about "mental health" and supports it coming down to gun legislation in the US and the gun nut culture here.

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  11. I can't, I just can't today Doc..

    I am an atheist but I believe church can be "good" for those that need community support and a hobby. We did a pros and cons study of people and church, church can be a positive and a negative..
    With that said let's change directions..
    I just had an argument with a co-worker at work about guns, he dared to compare guns to knives and cars. I ate his fallacy argument alive, he got so pissed he attacked me as a person (another fallacy) so I ate that argument alive. The gun nutts were so pissed at me at work.. Fucking time-out shit-heads, YOU brought the argument to my dispatch desk I didn't go looking for it, and I think I stayed calm til the hour and fifteen mark of eye rolling, I had to clear the room..
    The final straw man fallacy was he's a Marine, so the fuck is my husband and my husband happens to be on my side of the fight. People can't go to church, concerts, casinos, malls, events, school without paranoia of some douchebag with a gun lingering around the corner. My kids are in a decent school, I moved to this area just for the school, it was my private Catholics schools biggest rival, since I can't afford private I decided this was the next best, my kids school now has cameras in every corner of every hall and metal detectors at every door, and campus cops, WHY?? That school never had a shooting, the school doesn't have threats. My best explanation- paranoia from the last set of douches with guns from a different time, now my kids grow up living with this as a NORM!! And I sigh saying better safe than sorry, but that safe feeling is a FALSE sense, because in reality a person with a gun hell bent on doing something won't be stopped, they will find a different way..

    So Doc, I just can't, words always fall on deaf ears, people are blinded by their narcissistic entitlement and closed minds, you can't educate the stupid, you can educated the ignorant, but stupid people are blinded by their own noses and deaf to education.

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    1. I had a slightly above average acquaintance put it in perfect perspective: if you pull a gun, somebody is probably going to die. if you pull a less lethal device the situation is more likely to be resolved with no bloodshed at all.

      and he, too, was ex military and had used his service pistol to defend himself in a robbery.

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    2. My husband wants a handgun identical to his service gun, I ordered one for the upcoming Father's day from my best friend who happens to own a gun dealership business with her husband, they are also republicans, they do the good thing, they both are in the same industry as we are.. Last two emergencies that happened at their home my husband and I flew in to rescue mode to help them, never thought twice about it even if they are the complete opposite.

      I want a 357 revolver.. But, BUT before I bring a weapon in to my home- my kids will have gun safety courses, they will go to the gun range, they will learn how to use the weapon, they will take classes, they will talk to officers, and they will take the concealed test with us even though they are too young to have one, wanna know why, because they will do the same damn thing when it's time to get a drivers license..
      and my kids are teens and prepping for college..

      My big one about the pulling of any weapon Ken is you better be prepared to use it, my cop classes taught me that..
      I am firm believer had these assholes had knives instead of guns they would have burnt out in a frenzy and there might have been one or two lives lost and not 10, 20, 57..

      I agree at times people need protection.. My neighbors are crackheads and Craiglist whores, I feel the need to protect my kids, and a knife won't cut it, my shotgun might but it's not here with me because of the move it went in to the inlaws safe..

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    3. experts say a 20 gauge slide action shotgun makes the best choice for a home defense weapon if you feel you need it. it is heavy enough with a light enough projectile that most people can manage the recoil, it doesn't tend to shoot through walls, and the noise of racking it is distinctive enough to be a deterrent.
      on the other hand it is easily a day's worth of meth to a junkie.
      but if I was worried about people sneaking into my house in the middle of the night, I'd be more inclined to a nice hardwood club. I'm proficient enough with it to incapacitate the average prowler, (yes, I HAVE done full contact) it is less than lethal, and it's not going to give me the idea I can outdraw the bad guy.

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    4. My place has been bothered twice, both times tweekers climbed the two stories to get on my deck to steal my kids bikes that were locked to the railing and get in to my camping stuff, both times I was awake reading ebooks in the living room and I didn't see them..
      I got a baseball bat, the tranny and her/his wife do the banging and fellatio out in the car parked next to the dumpster in our parking lot. Not so much worried about them doing something while I'm asleep, more worried for the kids after school or trying to get from the parking lot the 20 feet to my place..
      This place was nice til the trashed moved in.. The first time I pulled up in my mustang they ran out to me thinking I was a John, I brought home my new Tahoe and they were on it like stink on shit, they lost all smiles when they seen it was me driving..
      I'm outta this place in the next year, it use to be nice, very low key, ffs my neighbors are horses and multimillionaire homes..

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    5. Ken yeah Ive heard many a robber running out of a house at the sound of a shotgun being pumped. Its a very effective deterrant.

      And cali good to hear youll at least be out of there soon. What a mess of a place that turned into.

      Thankfully my house has never had to deal with any break ins. Yet. And I know my plan in that case. Protect my family first and foremost.

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  13. Say it, Brother!

    Do you remember the story of the Ancient Trojan lady, Cassandra? She made Apollo mad and was cursed with the gift of prophesy - and that no one would ever believe her. She ended up being hacked to death by someone who didn't want to hear the truth. It happens all day, everywhere around the world.

    It seems particularly frequent these days. Makes me glad I'm old and won't have to put up with this crap for more than another decade or so.

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  14. As I said on Twitter, as long as the NRA owns the Congress, sensible gun laws will never be created in this country. Their greedy little hands throw money at the legislators and they accept it. I read that Paul Ryan, the Speaker of the House has accepted over 110K from the NRA this year.
    We own guns. I grew up with guns in the house, my father was a deputy sheriff. I've shot a sawed off shot gun and got knocked on my ass. But in the words of my country cousins, anyone who thinks they can deer hunt with an AR15 are sadly lacking in the brain department. These guys can shoot bear at 100 yards with a rifle, they know their stuff.
    As far as the Cheeto cutting away funding for mental health programs, unless he's stopped, it's not going to be a pretty picture. His mental illness is becoming more and more visible as time passes.
    I'm done. I cried yesterday. I cried for the young ones who won't grow up and the adults whose lives didn't need to end this way.

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  15. Why is it that in some states of the USA it is easier to buy a weapon than the contraceptive pill? Why (in some states) is it illegal for a 14-year-old rape victim to procure an abortion, but not for a person living in an apartment to purchase an automatic assault rifle from Wal-Mart?
    Some state schools only teach abstinence, and some states do not allow someone under 21 to drink alcohol, but buying a gun whilst still in school is encouraged?
    Thankfully the people doing these things are clearly terrible shots - but, unfortunately, unlike a good car or truck the gun does not automatically stop when a person is hurt so enough time and bullets results in carnage. (Yes, more and more cars and trucks are now getting fitted with devices that mean they cannot kill 20 people. They are efficient at transporting goods, but not efficient at mass murder ... unlike guns.)
    I think it is telling just how long these things stay in the news.

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    1. statistically speaking based on recent events, it would take 10 ISIS terrorists with trucks to match the carnage from two white men with guns.

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  16. As I said the last time, start limiting the ammo. Yes, some gun-nuts will stockpile their handful of rounds over years, but if you're only given the ability to buy one box of ammo for any particular weapon, you're going to limit the amount of bullets flying around at some point.

    Do it like they do with Sudafed, make you show your ID/Drivers License, sign your life away a couple times for each box, and suddenly it's a hassle to keep ammunition for your gun.

    And for those who are going to argue that it hurts law-abiding citizens who are going to go shooting at the range or hunting, don't bother. Make it so that you can buy ammo at a gun range, so long as it's done one box at a time for use on the range. With hunters, there's a reason why there's bow season, crossbow season, black powder season... Try something new.

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    1. Dakala!!!!!! OMG I totally forgot you have to show a license to buy spray paint here or Sudafed.
      My husband broke his finger and sliced it to the bone required 5 stitches, he slammed it shut in a metal to metal side-box on his tow truck and the doctors in the ER wouldn't give him pain killers, they said even though it was broken it wasn't a big enough bone, even though it got stitches it will stop hurting in three days.
      I went in with an infection in my jaw, a root canal failed, my face was twice it's size, the infection spread to my sinuses and I was pouring infection from my nose, the dentist told me the pain wasn't severe enough, I had been crying since it woke me up at 4am and couldn't talk. She said I was faking for pain meds, my palate swelled, my lips were bigger than a porn stars after giving 20 men fellatio for 8 hours straight.. I asked her to numb it so I could at least swallow water, she wanted to yank the tooth and told me if I wouldn't let her pull the tooth she wasn't going to give me antibiotics and that I wasn't suffering because she couldn't see why it would hurt..

      Why is it harder to get pain meds when a person is visibly in pain, broken finger with stitches is visible, face swollen to twice it's size with leaking pus from areas it didn't start in, yet I can go get a gun at a pawn shop in less than 20 minutes.. I go get cold meds and my ID and address go in to a meth cookers nightmare diary, I get a can of spray paint for my kids school project and I'm now labeled as a huffer.. Wtf, go out and buy 10k rounds and an AK47 and not a damn eye is blinked?

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    2. tell them you need the spray paint to spray in the face of a home invader and see if it streamlines it.

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    3. Cali another reason Im glad I have a good dentist. They actually took over my grandfathers practice when he died so that connection probably helps. Its in his same old office. "Whats that? Need it numbed? Sure thing!"

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    4. I wish Connor, I'm native so I automatically get the lable addict based on genetics.. Ya know it's like saying, "all gays are pedophiles", "male nurses are gay", "all blacks want a handout".. Ya know it's in our genetics..

      Lmao Ken, y'all get me put on some federal ban list, have to register as the crazy lady who makes people who break in huff spray paint..

      We had an issue at one of our lots, I was right there screaming pick me to neutralize the dude with mace and an activator bar, fuck the gun, I'm a hands-on kind of person.. Boss wouldn't let me because I'm a girl..

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    5. Personally if i had a dentist/doctor act like that towards me with a swollen up face in obvious pain etc id try and get a different dentist/doctor

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    6. She wasn't my normal dentist.. I went crying to my normal dentist a week later, my dentist knows I'm scared to death and have massive panic attacks having to go in, she is very kind to me..

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    7. That suddenly explains a lot.
      Was it the weekend team or something? Ive heard enough stories from those types to want me to stay as far away from them as possible

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  17. "Idiot to English Translation Engine" -- BRILLIANT! Is that copyrighted, Doc, or can I use it?

    I have become too much of a hard-hearted a bitch to cry or care anymore about Amurikah's mass shootings. The Mother Emmanuel church massacre in Charleston was the straw that broke this camel's back. I attended a beautiful wedding there many years ago, so I was gutted when the story broke. And after that, I was Done.

    And apologizes in advanced to you Doc, if this offends or gets me banned, but I'm fucking DONE holding my tongue for the sake of not pissing off White people. Like it or not, GUN CONTROL, OR THE LACK THEREOF, IS ALMOST TOTALLY A WHITE MALE ISSUE, so Whitefolks have to want to fix this shit! The politicians who have the power to change the laws are nearly all White men. The NRA lobbyists who own those politicians are White men. And the vast majority of gun sellers, whether in stores or via private transactions, are White men. So this is Whitefolks Mess - FIX IT!

    But if the slaughter of all those White kids at Sandy Hook Elementary didn't motivate y'all to wake the fuck up & change the guns laws, nothing will. The shooters in these massacres are nearly always White Men. But because nobody yelled "Allahu akbar!"at the Vegas shootings last month or the killings in Texas on Sunday, that orange julius jackhole in the White House refused to call those murderers Terrorists. Instead, he insists that mass shootings are a "mental health issue" while his base brays right along with him.

    And the sane, reasonable White people who know better can't seem to be bothered to organize a Whitefolk's march to take over the NRA headquarters & let the politicians know that you've had enough of this demonic mess? Do y'all have something better to do?

    Ever notice that, despite all the black & brown folks who end up getting shot by other black/brown folks, people of color never get a seat at the table during gun control discussions? There are professional groups of Black cops, organizations of Black men who hunt & shoot for sport, all of whom are in favor of banning private ownership of assault weapons. But the NRA conveniently ignores Black gun owners when they try to speak out for changing the gun laws. And the press never seems to write about that. Like the NRA never spoke out for Philando' Castile's legal right to have the LICENSED gun that was in his possession -- & still in the glovebox -- when that cop executed him for owning a gun while Black in Minnesota.

    Frankly, I was glad it happened in Texas this time because the yahoos there love their guns so very much. I no longer have any fucks to give about White people who who choose to slaughter each other with assault weapons. I don't give a fuck because I realize that the blind supporters of blanket gun ownership for all are the same people who refuse to convict -- or even charge -- cops (of any race) who shoot unarmed Blackfolks like dogs in the street. Their gun lust & thirst for killing has them completely deranged. So I have no more thoughts or prayers to waste on those who think assault weapon ownership is an inalienable right & that "a good guy with a gun" will prevent mass murders.

    I've got me & mine to worry & pray & cry over.

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    1. I may not always be a proponent of good guy with a gun but the people who chased him out of the church and drove this bastard off the road were not cops...but "good guys with guns".
      Could also talk about situations like in the LA Riots in 94 when if you wanted the cops to save you....good luck with that most of the time. 7 minute response time on a good day

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    2. RC, that's what I have been screaming.. I tell folks they are the problem and not the solution.. Dumbass at work gets tired of his gun (toy), sells it to whatever Yahoo has cash in hand.. The white dumbass had no understanding of how that's creating more of the problem, he thinks it's everyone's rights to own a "gurn".. I'm burned out, no one wants to listen, no one wants to lose the money their power buying white political puppet masters throw at them, err I mean NRA..

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    3. Philando Castile got shot because THE COP TOLD HIM MULTIPLE TIMES TO STOP DIGGING AROUND AND KEEP HIS HANDS IN SIGHT, AND HE KEPT ON DIGGING.

      there are a lot better choices to cite as martyrs than that.

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    4. RC - I started using the Idiot to English Translation Engine way back in my FML days. You're goddamned right it's copyrighted. Not really.

      That said, take it easy. We all know you have very strong opinions, but sometimes you have to temper your comments. You're once again treading a very fine line.

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    5. Its rather sad to go back to FML and see what a poor state the old site is. Its full of dangerous ads that could lead to viruses and such and pop ups and just...dear god its just awful

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  18. As a Texan I won’t argue guns. But I will correct a few incorrects statements made in the press. It was NOT an assault rifle it was regular rifle. And it has not been released if the bad mans fatal shot was self inflicted OR from the LEGAL gun owners shot. So, a legal gun owner ended up making an illegal gun owner drop his weapon and ended up dead, and unless he had a pistol at his disposal in his vehicle, the good guy who legally owned his weapon, killed the bad guy.
    And for the record, I had to have a federal background check. And all of my mental health records released to the county in which gave me the authority to allow me to purchase my .9 mm before I was allowed to take it home, after it was paid for. Which ended up taking about a month. Then, I belong to a shooters club where I was/am educated and certified in shooting, cleaning, defending, and safety first and foremost. Then, I became a concealed carrier in my state of Texas. In my opinion, the bad guys have illegal guns. Laws, like locks only stop the honest people.

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    1. The gunman Did have at least one wound self inflicted they said.

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    2. The Texas and the Las Vegas shooter both purchased their guns legally. As do most mass shooters. And if they get them illegally, the fact that they are so easy to get is a problem. Shootings happen because guns are too easy to get in America, not because there are more "bad guys" in America compared to any other country.

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    3. the news that the fatal shot was self inflicted was released on national news on the 7th. while technically, the gun used was a civilian "sporter" model, and "assault rifle" is not a technical definition, for all practical purposes, the gun matched the common usage of "assault rifle"

      and what the "good guy with a gun" did was promote a high speed chase through traffic.

      and the tangerine tw@'s claim that if there was stricter vetting for firearms would have meant the civilian wouldn't have a gun is bogus - because it is more likely the civilian would still have had his gun, but the shooter DEFINITELY WOULD NOT.

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    4. NYAH - The term "assault rifle" is meaningless. It's a semi-automatic rifle, and that's all that matters.

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  19. No mention of the neighbor who stopped the massacre with an AR-15 Doc?

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    1. "stopped" is pretty relative when 26 people are already killed.

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    2. Both men, good and bad, legal and illegal gun owners used rifles at the time.

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    3. It's insanity to have civilians defend against each other using guns. You want everybody to have guns? You want people shooting each other for self-defense regularly? Is there a war going on US soil??

      I do not understand why Americans feel entitled to own guns. Guns are inherently dangerous: weapons designed to kill people. Even as a healthy adult, I would not want to own a gun or even touch one. If I had a gun in the house, I would feel less safe, not more, unless this were the zombie apocalypse or a war.

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    4. No Anon, no mention of that. Because he had already killed 26 people.

      I understand your "good guy with a guy" hypothesis. I addressed it in my last post-gun-massacre post. Short version: it's bullshit, because for every life saved by a "good guy with a gun", 112 people are killed by a gun (either murder or suicide). Don't believe me? Here, read. https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_15_justifiable_homicide_by_weapon_private_citizen_2008-2012.xls

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    5. So what do you suggest that WE Americans do? Ban the AR-15? You know that's not going to happen. Listen, WE already know that you have a hard-on for the AR-15 because it is the most popular rifle in America. It’s singled out because it very much looks like it belongs in the hands of a soldier. I don't believe that you understand the difference in functionality either ( you want to go there?), what you care about is that it looks like an assault rifle, so it must be an assault rifle. Yet, you don’t know enough about firearms to know any different, and few bother to educate themselves enough to understand. Stop it.

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    6. Fuck outta here, Anon@7:29!
      I'm an American and HELL YES, I want AR-15s banned completely. Education doesn't make a semi-automatic weapon anything more/less than what it is; unnecessary and unwarranted in civilian hands. Shove yours up your clacker bc YOU don't speak for the rest of US Americans. You stop it.

      And, finally, one of the orange clown's nominees agrees:

      "I'd also like to — and I may get in trouble with other members of the committee — just say, you know, how insane it is that in the United States of America a civilian can go out and buy ... a semi-automatic assault rifle like an AR-15, which apparently was the weapon that was used," Dean Winslow, a physician and retired Air Force colonel nominated to be the assistant secretary of Defense for health affairs, said during his Senate Armed Services confirmation hearing.

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    7. ❤❤❤❤ Our favorite saying at work, "The fuck, get the fuck outta here with that bullshit nonsense".. Glad to see others say it. ❤❤❤❤
      You gave me a lady-boner!

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    8. so you had two people spraying away with an effective range of a mile, after the original shooter had done all the shooting he planned to do.

      makes me feel much safer.

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    9. Listen, WE already know that you have a hard-on for the AR-15 because it is the most popular rifle in America.
      The best way to rile up an American gun fanatic is for a foreigner to question their love of guns. If I didn't hate the shockingly appropriate term "triggered", I would use the term "triggered" here. But I won't.

      I don't believe that you understand the difference in functionality either
      The difference in functionality between what? Does it make a fucking difference if I know that the Ruger AR-556 (which is what Devin Kelley used) has a proprietary barrel nut with a threaded delta ring? Does that really fucking matter? Or is it more important that THAT SPECIFIC GUN was used to kill 26 innocent people, including multiple children.

      The bottom line is I don't really give a fuck what you believe I know. As someone who is intimately aware of guns and the wounds they produce, there is a very strong chance that I know a FUCK of a lot more about ballistics than you think.

      what you care about is that it looks like an assault rifle, so it must be an assault rifle.
      No, what I care about is that semi-automatic rifles are routinely used in mass shootings, including this one, Las Vegas, Orlando, San Bernardino, Aurora, and Sandy Hook. And what I care about is that you people are so fucking scared that someone is going to come take your precious gun that mass murders like this mean not a goddamned thing to you.

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    10. *semiautomatic rifles with high capacity removable magazines.

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    11. @Cali Sometimes it's the only appropriate response. Use of GTFOH is widespread, so you're definitely not alone. I, too, am a lady, though that's a bit of an oxymoron, considering. But that condescending asshole's blanket statement enraged me. Oddly, I don't feel a need to rush out to buy a gun with which to shoot him. Bear spray? Lemme at him... And we puzzle about the great divide happening in America? This is Exhibit A. Anyway, boner away!! �� (OT: I know exactly how you feel. I get em most often about fast cars with lots of gears, fat sticky tires and red caliper brakes. Or the hot menz.) M in NC

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  20. I always concealed carry anywhere I go as a responsible citizen. As the old saying goes. I'd rather be judged by 12 than be carried by 6.

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    1. That's because you're a white man.

      Few others in America would "rather be judged by 12."

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    2. Anon dont be so presumptuous.
      I can think of a lot of non white people I know of or know personally who would agree.

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    3. I don't have twelve peers.. How about not play in traffic, or how about don't put yourself in a situation that you will likely get killed..

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    4. somehow I've managed to make it over half of my expected natural lifespan without having to do either.

      and plenty of people who have carried a gun for self defense have been carried by six.

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    5. Ken!! I have done a lot of things that put me in a bad spot, never had to carry a gun.. I'm more worried about getting cancer than robbed..
      People shouldn't have to carry a gun to church for fucks sake, people look for a solution to the ends and not a solution so it doesn't happen again..

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    6. I have had three times in my life when I felt it was advisable to have a gun ready to hand.

      two of those involved a wild animal that had been attacking pets. the third involved providing a safe haven in an intervention. guess which two actually saw the gun used.

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  21. Some anonymous coward (no really, if you are serious about debating, take the time to sign up)

    "I don't believe that you understand the difference in functionality either"

    All we see are 26 people dead and as many grievously wounded. This time. Last time in Vegas was what? 50 dead and 500+ wounded?
    All we not-Yankee see, is that in our corner of the world, we may have about one or two mass murder per year. You get one every week, if not more.

    Ask Doc Bastard, he is a trauma surgeon, I bet he can talk for hours about the differences between a knife wound, a small-arm's bullet wound and a riffle's bullet wound.
    And now, surgeons near Sans Antonio have first hand experience of treating the latter type in children.

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    1. Lets look at something most people dont take into account. The size of the US.
      Look at europe. Then look at the US. The us is larger. Each country in europe is smaller than most of the states.
      Now lets take the number of shootings state by state and compare that to the shootings country to country in europe. Or the number of shootings in europe as a whole.

      I just looked up out of curiosity and strangely enough apparently between 2009 and 2015 there were 27% more casualties per capita from mass shootings in Europe vs the US. Odd considering how many guns there are in the US.
      What does this all mean? Hell if I know in the long run. Just something to consider when looking at the number of shootings in the US

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    2. correction for you. using the official definition of mass shooting: four or more casualties; there have been over 300 of them in the US in 2017. that isn't one a week, it is one a DAY.

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    3. Ken the statistic I used was up to 2015

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    4. 2016 and 2017 have sadly proven to have had an abundance in the US

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    5. Making America Grate, again.

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    6. and my correction was for heliantus.

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    7. Correction well taken. It is indeed one per day.

      I was actually wondering if I was also wrong - underestimating - when writing that the surgeons around San Antonio just got to discover what it's like to treat a child with not-an-assault-rifle wounds.

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    8. Heliantus - You are correct. There are huge differences between a knife wound and a bullet wound, and even bigger differences between high-velocity and low-velocity gunshot wounds.

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    9. Fun fact ( or life saving fact): despite how its portrayed in film, high velocity rounds dont penetrate water well and shatter on impact, only going into the water at high speed for a foot or 2. Low velocity rounds do not however So jumping into a lake if being shot at by a high velocity rifle may actually save your life if you can hold your breath long enough

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    10. @ Connor

      There was a Mythbuster episode about this. They compared a .50 cal and a smaller rifle round, IIRC.
      In addition to possibly stopping high-velocity bullets, an appropriate body of water may also impede the aim of the shooter - bullets go straight but light doesn't (try with a fish tank).

      Unfortunately, lakes are like good guys with gun - there isn't often one nearby enough when the shooting starts. Maybe we should dig more lakes...

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    11. Thats one of my sources for learning that. But other high caliber rifles and machine guns have shown the same effect.

      And yes its rare. But hey maybe knowing that could save a single persons life.

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    12. in short, the higher the velocity, the more the water affects the projectile.
      basic physics, really.

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    13. Yes but in a world where flat earthers somehow are finding more traction seems for some its "physics, whats that?"

      Delete
  22. An encounter w some rando w a gun is far more likely to end up killing me than helping me. That's just how guns are. Road rage, drunkenness, toddler, domestic violence, someone gets fired and loses it- it's all gonna go badly way more often if a gun is around.

    Everyone thinks they are special, they are the exception, their personal situation will be improved by a gun, that they are somehow smarter and luckier than everyone else, but statistics rarely bear this out(There ain't a whole lot of people living in grizzly bear country or who own enough livestock to have need of a gun). People here talking about how they want a gun because people steal their kid's bike, or their neighbor is a prostitute. Good god. ALL that leads to is bike thieves and prostitutes who now need guns to defends themselves, or off themselves, or accidentally shoot someone, or kids get their hands on it, or it gets stolen and used in a crime.

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  23. I am a white American who fully supports gun control legislation. Is mental health treatment a problem? Absolutely. If you're in a mental health crisis state are you seeking help? Probably not. I ha e been to the shooting range once with an ex-boyfirend who had a personal armory. He was a great shot. He carried concealed (legally), even at home. I came home from work one day and he didnt hear me coming up the stairs and had his shirt half open to pull on me. We were vacationing in Florida and a less than savroy guy yelled at us through the truck window while we were stopped at a light. As he walked towards us my lovely ex pulled out his gun and slapped the magazine out and in. Dis we know if random yelling guy was armed and would shoot first. Nope. Thankfully, he wasn't.

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    Replies
    1. You're alive, aren't you? That means you're ex is not a mental case. Otherwise, ...

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  24. Remember, the US is not a democratic nation, so it's not like the majority believe these guns should be owned by anyone other than law enforcement, if at all outside the military. The NRA has used ludicrous propaganda of a "slippery slope" claim, which of course could be applied to any law or regulation. If there are laws against murder, for example, then what if that gets applied to someone defending himself? But the uneducated people mostly in the states that get excessive representation can't figure this out for themselves and keep voting for those who are working for the NRA and against the best interests of the people who voted for them (whether those people are smart enough to know that much). There's also a racist element; for example, a relative of mine showed me fake statistics (that she believed in because it was sent to her on FaceBook), from the non-existent "San Francisco Bureau of Statistics) which showed that "whites" are being slaughtered by "blacks" in record numbers, and so they need guns! This nation has become a sad, angry, deluded place; if you are thinking of coming here for vacation my advice is to go somewhere else. Don't reward insanity!

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