I'm going to do something a bit different on this post. Actually, two somethings different. First, I'm going to use a patient's real name, and without her consent. Before anyone asks, yes I know what I'm doing, and no I've not gone crazy. The second different thing will be that I'll be veering away from medicine, something I've been loathe to do here.
The very keen reader will notice that the previous paragraph doesn't make sense. But like everything I write, it will all (I hope) make sense by the end.
The patient I will discuss is sick. Very sick. Very VERY VERY VERY sick. She's been sick for a long time, and recently she's gotten even sicker. I have been following her for quite some time, though I am not smart enough to fix her. I'm not sure anyone is.
Her name is the United States of America (her real name™).
I'm sure most of you saw that coming the proverbial mile away.
That's right people, I'm going to talk politics on this blog for only the second time (I think). Though I follow international politics (looking at you, Brexit), I tend to avoid talking about it like naturopaths avoid evidence. If you really want to lose a friend, bring up politics. Pick any topic you like. Chances are you'll be A) disagreed with, B) quickly, and C) vehemently. No one can seem to agree on anything.
Except Donald Trump.
Everyone seems to agree that he is a misogynistic, xenophobic, homophobic, racist asshole. Yet over 60,000,000 people voted for him. Let that sink in for a moment - over sixty million people voted for the Apprentice guy, a man who has never held public office, whose biggest claim to fame is being a "successful" businessman (whose success is measured by not paying taxes because he lost nearly a billion dollars) and reality television star, and who seems to anger every ethnic minority (and many ethnic majorities) by spewing bile and bilge at every turn.
And he was just voted president of the United States of America.
Keep in mind that I have no dog in this fight. This is not my circus, and these are not my monkeys. I am an outsider looking in, but I can faithfully and without reservation say that if this were my circus and if they were my monkeys, I would not have voted for Donald Trump. Not in a million years. It has little to do with the fact that Trump inexplicably still believes that vaccines cause autism (I'm sure you knew that was coming) or that vice president-elect Mike Pence denies evolution and believes god created the universe in exactly six days, but more with the fact that Donald Trump is a misogynistic, xenophobic, homophobic, racist asshole (where have we heard that before).
But he won anyway. His win without a doubt reveals one thing with incredible clarity: the United States is dreadfully ill. The fact that such a man could be elected its leader stunned me, but it didn't surprise me (I'll explain). Anyone who didn't see this coming doesn't follow American politics or its international effects.
Racism and hate in the United States was supposed to be solved by its first black president. Barack Obama was supposed to fix it with hope and change. Racism was to be relegated to history books. Not only has that not happened, but the racial divide has actually deepened (from my perspective). This has been highlighted by the numerous protests, change.org petitions, "NOT MY PRESIDENT" chants, tweets, blog posts, and newspaper articles about how horrible Trump is, how horrible his presidency will be, how he will be impeached, how they wish he will be a terrible president, and how Hillary Clinton should still be elected despite losing. THAT IS NOT HELPING.
Over three million people have signed this petition (EDIT: now nearly 4 million) calling on the Electoral College to elect Clinton rather than Trump because Clinton received more popular votes. While it may seem like that should seem to be a win, the American electoral process is not designed that way, and it has not been set up since its inception. Just like George W. Bush in 2000 and 3 other US elections, Trump received more electoral votes, and he is therefore the winner.
Any argument about the Electoral College being obsolete and needing to be overhauled or abolished is irrelevant at this point after the fact. That would be akin to demanding at the end of a football match that the game be extended by 10 extra minutes because your team hasn't scored yet. You may not change the rules after the fact. THAT IS NOT HELPING.
This election is and always was about a broken country. The people wanted a change, and they got it, most probably more than they bargained for. But the chanting, marching, complaining, whining, and backlash is not helping. The anti-Trumpers who are protesting are feeding into exactly the same division that allowed Trump to be elected in the first place. They are driving a wedge between them and the pro-Trump crowd, widening the rift, and IT IS NOT HELPING.
And this isn't just about black versus white. It isn't just about men versus women. It isn't just about poor versus rich. It is fully half the country versus the other half. Believe it or not, Trump had black, female, young, gay, Hispanic and wealthy supporters, and Clinton had white, male, old, straight, and poor supporters. Looking at the numbers broken down it is clear that there were certain dividing lines along which folks tended to vote, but there was no group that voted 100% for either candidate. Somehow despite what Trump has said about women, he still had the support of 42% of them, and despite what he said about Mexicans, 29% of Hispanics voted for Trump. To me, that speaks volumes. If it does not speak volumes to you, then you do not understand the problem and ARE NOT HELPING.
Lumping in all Trump supporters as racist, misogynistic, half-breed idiots is exactly the thing that you were fighting against when Trump claimed that Mexican immigrants were criminals and rapists. It's the exact same thing you were fighting against when Trump endorsed closing the US borders to Muslim immigrants. You are generalising while fighting generalisations. THAT IS NOT HELPING.
Worse still, a New York Times book review on Hitler: Ascent, 1889-1939 published about 6 weeks ago made absolutely no effort to conceal a thinly veiled comparison of Donald Trump to Adolf Hitler. A teacher was suspended this past week for comparing Trump to Hitler. There are other articles all over the internet making the same comparison. As much as I disagree with Trump's philosophy, I find the comparison to one of the planet's most reviled humans in history absolutely revolting. Again, I do not agree with Trump, but the comparison is disgusting and IS NOT HELPING.
This is the same situation that Obama has been in for the past 8 years as I have heard claim after claim that he is the next Fidel Castro and would destroy the United States by leading it into communism. This has obviously not happened as the United States is just fine and is still (last I checked) a democracy.
I am not saying that capitulation is the right move. I am not saying that you should give in or give up. If you want to change the system, then fight to change the system. If you want your candidate in office, fight for it. But fight for it NEXT TIME. Fight for a candidate you believe in, whose policies you endorse, and get that person elected. NEXT TIME. But fighting it after the fact because you don't like the result is denying the democratic wish of half the country and IS NOT HELPING.
If you want to wait for Trump to screw something up so royally that he gets impeached or is forced to resign, fine. Do I think that will happen? No I do not. Wishing that it would happen is only wishing ill on the entire country, and THAT IS NOT HELPING.
I will take a moment here to repeat that I support neither Donald Trump nor the vast majority of what he has said and done throughout his campaign. That said, I also would not have supported Hillary Clinton, Gary Johnson, or Jill Stein for various (and altogether different) reasons. Hell, I would have voted "DocBastard 2016" if given the opportunity, and I guaran-damn-tee you I would have made a better president than ANY of these goddamned clowns.
Regardless, the people of the United States need to take a good look in the mirror, take a deep breath, and figure out how exactly they want to proceed, and how they want the next 4 years of their lives to shape up. Fighting and whining and complaining and protesting will not solve anything, it will only make things worse and guarantee a 2020 win for Trump.
As usual, I don't have all the answers. Hell, I don't even know if I have any answer. Except perhaps this one:
At least you lot get a chance in four years to put things right. Brexit is a one way street.ReplyDelete
He's appointing Supreme Court Justices that are going to dictate how our country is run the next 50 or so years. There was a lot at stake this election.Delete
Well said, DocBastard, well said. Now let's hope people listen to you. It's traumatic to the psyche knowing that half the American people voted for change led by a racist, bigoted, xenophobic, misogynistic, bombastic, narcissistic person(*). The Electoral College is people's last breath of hope, hope that doesn't die easily in some. However, people will adjust.ReplyDelete
Either Trump's presidency over the next four years will succeed, or it won't. If he bumbles his way through he won't be re-elected. The bigger question is how much damage will he, and Congress inflict, or attempt to inflict, on the American people along the way.
(*) Please note the distinction that Trump was all of those nasty things, not necessarily the people who voted for them.
(long time reader, first time commenter ... I have enjoyed your blog, and tweets, and appreciate your continued battle fighting ignorance, and mis-information. Thank you.)
There are many reasons Trump won. One big reason is Hillary Clinton herself. Now, I didn't vote for Trump, but neither did I vote for Hillary. They are both dreadful.ReplyDelete
As to the electoral college, we have that because the U.S. Is a Republic, not a pure democrac. And it remains to be seen if Hillary did win the popular vote. There are something like 1.4 million overseas ballots that have yet to be counted and she is ahead by fewer than 300,000 votes.
My hope is that after this debacle the primary system will spit out some better more acceptable candidates. I believe that if the Democrats had nominated some like Jim Webb, who dropped out very early, Trump would have lost. But no, it had to be Hillary, and there were shenanigans with the super delegates and the DNC because it was Hillary's turn.
I just feel like my head is going to explode.
Thank-you for making the comment we are a Republic not a pure democracy! The difference is important.A republic is similar to a representative democracy except it has a written constitution of basic rights that protect the minority from being completely unrepresented or overridden by the majority.Delete
You're welcome. Too many people forget that, or don't know it.Delete
If it was only a four-year stint, I would be positive the country could bounce back after a Trump presidency. However, the man will appoint at least one, possibly three, Supreme Court Justices who will serve for life. They will be right-wing conservatives with much sympathy for industry at the expense of the environment. Wall Street and big Pharma will thrive at the expense of the middle class. Climate change is voodoo science cooked up by liberal eggheads and any attempt at control needs to be disregarded. Social programs are unnecessary because those who need them are just lazy and need to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps (or bootie straps if they're an infant).ReplyDelete
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not in the fucking mood to reach out to people who voted to set this country back 70 years or more.
Gristle, I'm with you. Let's all remember that the right to protest is enshrined in the Constitution, and let's also remember that although Trump voters may not by sexist racist bigots individually, they actively voted in a man whose very platform encouraged those very things. Trump voters are complicit, and we will be cleaning up the mess for decades to come. His likely appointment for Secretary of Education is a New Earth Creationist. His pick for head of the EPA is a climate changer denier. For all Republicans yammer on about being advocates of personal responsibility, they sure don't think it applies to them in this instance.Delete
You both missed the spirit of what I wrote. I find that disheartening.Delete
Doc, I don't think we did. It seems like what you are saying is that, if Trump decides to be as horrible as he demonstrated in his platform, then we have work to do. We know this. And that fostering the divide is not helping. We get this too. But as an American who lives in this country, the protests aren't meant - for the most part - to try to change the results of the election. Hillary Clinton lost. We know this. The protests, as far as I can see (and who knows, maybe you'll enlighten me and tell me I'm wrong), have been about letting the populace know that there are many of out there who don't condone the sexism and racism and hate of that platform. And yep, as much as I despise Donald Trump, we all better hope he doesn't screw up royally enough to really put this country in trouble, because if he downs the ship then we all go down with it. I think the point of your post is that there is work to be done. Please tell me if I'm wrong.Delete
I should qualify my statement that the protests that have taken place in MY neck of the woods - New England - have not been protesting Donald Trump's win, but rather are marches where most signs proclaim love and inclusion. Now, it's fine to think that perhaps those marches are pointless. Maybe they are, maybe they're not. But the signs have for the most part not even mentioned Donald Trump. Perhaps other areas of the country have a different tenor.Delete
There are people all over the country protesting his win. This is what I'm talking about. This sort of thing will help nothing and further weaken the country. http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/12/us/protests-elections-trump/index.htmlDelete
I think that Trump will not be as stellar as his supporters think, nor will he be as horrible as his naysayers think as well. I can only hope he surrounds himself with very intelligent (emotional intelligence counts here too) people in order to be his filter, to buffer him as it were. What I get sick of is people saying "he's going to _____ (insert whatever doomsday thought you have here). How do we know? How do we know exactly what he will do? There seems to be much fear mongering going on and yes I was mostly disgusted that those 2 - Clinton and Trump were all we had to offer this nation. To me that is the most sickening thing.Delete
first; a couple of minor corrections: Trump is the FIFTH time the electoral college has gone to the loser of the popular vote.ReplyDelete
second; as stated in the federalist papers, one of the functions of the electoral college, besides giving smaller states more voice, was to provide a safeguard against the general populace being bamboozled by a silver tongued scumbag.
now, for my own opinion: Trump has spent the last 8 years promoting division, and now that he feels he is in a position of power he is demanding the half of the country who is divided against him that they must fall into line behind him without offering any compromise at all - exactly the thing those who have abruptly declared undying affection for him were accusing Obama of doing; while claiming that they had a mandate to enlarge the division between them and the agenda the most voters in American history had voted for.
the rift cannot heal with Trump in power, any more than a person can heal with a ruptured appendix still in his body.
That's why I mentioned the 2000 election *and* 3 other elections. It looks like that point didn't convey well.Delete
correct. I was under the impression you were thinking the total was 4.Delete
Trump is a con man. One woman in PA said she voted for him "so she could say Merry Christmas". Seriously. I wish the US could split into 2 countries and I am DONE.ReplyDelete
I am just so glad this election is over!! Living in California I did not vote for Trump. You would think with all the people we have in the USA there would've been better candidates on both sides.ReplyDelete
I hope now all the crap showing up on my Facebook page will stop! Especially from one of my sons, this election brought out so much nastiness.
Sometimes, people avoiding supreme positions such as presidency are the ones most qualified for it. At least they realize the magnitude of the responsibility. Apparently, Trump had put this thing off for quite a while until it was not possible anymore. I've never been a fan of republicans and not necessarily a fan of Trump, but this election exposed how crooked and corrupted democrats are and how they're not any better. I truly hope that he'll succeed at making America and, given America's stature, the rest of the world a better place to be. It's a scenario where everybody would win.ReplyDelete
What part of pussy-grabbing misogyny, wall building to keep Mexicans out of the USA because they're rapists and criminals, investigating/deporting Muslims who have lived here for generations, denying climate change, giving more tax breaks to the wealthiest individuals and corporations, repealing the ACA, going ahead with the Keystone Pipeline, and wondering why we don't use nuclear weapons if we have them, do you believe will be best for the country and world? I didn't love Hillary either and would gladly have kicked Debbie Wasserman Schultz and all her DNC minions right square in the kneecaps, but knew Clinton at least had the temperament to actually govern sanely.Delete
Trump tells it like it is, no matter what resulting chaos ensues. He's doesn't need to be beholden to anyone or anything. His strong perseverance is what we need. His goal will be to make America "cost effective". You may not agree with him, but you WILL listen because he is an "in your face" personality. He has known both defeat and victory, and is not a graceful looser, coming back even stronger. His negotiating skills are superb. The world is no more than a giant business community which needs a forceful CEO. Do we really want a deceitful, untrustworthy leader such as Hillary Clinton? The Bush family who have been proven to be liars and would trade American lives to further their agenda? I"ll rather give this position to one who, although brash, has a clear cut idea of what is important to this country, and stands behind those ideals with strong convictions.Delete
And yet he is beholden. For all his talk of 'draining the swamp,' all Trump has done for the past five days is publicly invite those who have lived in the swamp for decades back in. Anonymous, it is the height of irony to claim that Donald Trump is not EXACTLY the type of deceitful, untrustworthy leader you claim to hate. Ask his former business partners, the working people he stiffed on his construction contracts, the pageant teenagers he gaped at, and the women he allegedly groped. This man is a snake-oil salesman and you've downed the snake oil in one gulp.Delete
Trump is a PRESIDENT not a king or dictator. He is beholden to his voters and his congressmen, who he will soon learn are not going to give him the votes he needs unless he decides to be a good little boy and let them properly secure his little puppet strings.Delete
Only a person who doesn't understand how business and negotiations work would think Trump is a good negotiator. Only a fool would think that the republican party is going to let him do whatever he wants and lose the last voting base they have left.
Have you taken a serious look at Obamy's team recently? http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2008/11/26/obama-defends-deep-list-washington-insiders-administration.htmlDelete
Yeah that's right. Someone who doesn't conform to the lowest common denominator. Someone who isn't 100% politically correct all the time. Someone who doesn't aid people who don't deserve it. Someone who has a business-oriented plan to actually make America a decent country instead of giving people a bunch of stuff when they don't deserve it and turning a blind eye when something happens that perpetuates a negative stereotype.Delete
He'd be incredibly different than ANY other candidate or past president.
the stupid... it BURNS.Delete
trump IS a habitual liar. he doesn't tell it like it is, he tells it like he thinks will bring him money and power.
his goal is to make Trump richer.
he is not a negotiator, he is a bully.
I would rather give the position to nearly anybody than Trump.
trump IS the lowest common denominator. and different is not necessarily good.
Obama has fuck all to do with what Trump is proposing. He has no bearing on the fact that Trump has lost more money than he's made. He would be worth $10 billion dollars MORE than if he just invested in index funds. That's a terrible business sense. That's the idiot that's in charge of our ...as you put it... company call the USA.Delete
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how about he start with his wife?Delete
I'm sick to death of hearing Trump supporters say "He tells it like it is".Delete
NO HE DOES NOT. Trump "tells it" like HE THINKS it is, not how decent people see how it really is. People with an "in your face" personality often get punched in that face. Let's see how that bravado works with leaders of the opposing party and, even more so, with foreign leaders.
Trump tells it like his whim is at the moment.Delete
Trump doesn't get to spend a great deal of his campaign deliberately building up an image of bigotry and divisiveness then suddenly expect everyone to fall in line. People don't get to sit there and pretend he's not a racist bigot so they can do the mental gymnastics to make themselves feel better about voting for him. This has been a long and exhausting election from both sides. No one was happy about either candidate.ReplyDelete
The people protesting aren't protesting the legitimacy of his win, that's a very minor speaking point. They're protesting the rhetoric he's been spewing from day one to let him know he doesn't have a blank check to do what he likes with. I for one am not falling in line with the GOP agenda of setting civil rights back a few decades, even if it means letting them know they need to consider the possibility of civil unrest if they proceed.
The DNC tried to rig the election in favor of Hillary by pushing out Bernie, and getting the media to rile the masses. No one likes a rigged election. The only campaign point Hillary had was "I'm not Trump".
Trump won because right now we have an economy that is failing rural Americans, and frankly most people value providing for their families than they do the environment or social issues. If he left social issues alone I think the 50% of America against him would at least tolerate him. If he does create jobs and boosts the economy, people will calm down maybe even support him (because again, it's hard to care about extra pollution when you're working 60 hours at a stagnant wage that barely gets your entire family a 1 bedroom apartment). Bluntly, the majority of people who are concerned about the environment and social issues (those in the cities) have the financial luxury to do so. Hillary did nothing to address them except to say "Well, you're racist if you vote for Trump".
That said, he made promises that aren't even slightly feasible. Even if he lifts environmental restrictions, NO ONE WANTS TO BUY FUCKING COAL. It's more expensive than oil, and once we perfect solar power and renewable energy we have no need for that aside from powering cars. No factory is going to hire a swarm of workers when they have machines to automate 90% of the work. Those towns are dead. They will never be prosperous again like they were in the 50's-80's. The only possibility these small towns have is if he makes solar power manufacturing plants (or something similar) nearby and put the solar farms they need to maintain in the area. But even that is giving him too much credit.
Yes, America is sick, and it's about to get worse as Trump starts making tax cuts for the rich and putting in the same lobbyists he was apparently against. There is no quick fix to our economy like he promised. We're no longer the leading world super power, and it's going to take a few decades to acclimate to that.
and he's NOT going to stop offshoring, because that's his primary source of income.Delete
Shark, you said:Delete
"Bluntly, the majority of people who are concerned about the environment and social issues (those in the cities) have the financial luxury to do so."
You do know that most pollution generated in cities is generated in neighborhoods where poor black & brown people live, right? That's always where the bus terminals, garbage dumps, incinerators & other heavy polluting industries are located. Folks in poor neighborhoods know that their kids suffer from more asthma, catch more colds & flu, have more skin problems & are in generally worse health because of the environmental toxins they're exposed to due to pollution.
Don't get it twisted -- fighting for the health & safety of our children isn't about "financial luxury", it's about survival. If you can't afford to move away, you stay & fight against the polluters.
And even the rich know they can't survive with poisoned water & air. Which is the real reason why billionaires like Elon Musk are busy trying to colonize space now.
Shark's point was that the ones who are exposed to the worst pollution can't afford to take time off to complain.Delete
I am aware of those facts RC.Delete
My point was that on the pyramid of needs that people need to first be financially stable so that they CAN think outside their own well being to think about things like pollution and social issues. That's why most protesters are young people without family obligations who are still living with room mates to shoulder the cost. They have the financial ability to HAVE the time to go out and protest.
Even if these factories do generate jobs, 99% of people will deal with it because it means money for their family. Is it right? No. But frankly, I would not be out protesting against my livelihood either. That's why coal mining towns were around for long. The residents didn't care about miner's lung because they had stable income. When the mines closed, you better believe the people would rather have had the toxic mines back than to be stuck in a desperate situation. Pollution won't stop until they find a CHEAPER alternative and create jobs around those. America needs jobs and a better economy before we can worry about the environment on an individual level right now, otherwise people are only going to see environmentalists threatening their livelihood, not trying to save the planet.
I did not vote for Trump. His "policies," which largely reflect whatever positions someone conveyed to him right before he spoke, are far removed any values that I hold dear. It's a source of considerable pain to me that most of my family, and not a few old school friends and acquaintances, voted to support him. I've had the conversations in person, and I've seen the FB posts, and I can tell you that none of these people were suffering economically. These are not the desperately poor of the rust belt. These are mostly skilled blue collar or white collar people who have done quite well over the course of Obama's eights years, but who are absolutely fucking gleeful that the n*gger is about to be chased out of the White House, that the c*nt should be in jail, and by the way lets get those various minorities out of our faces.... but don't you dare call them racist. And shut up now, since your side lost the election, boo hoo.ReplyDelete
So yes, America is ill, and I'm terribly saddened to see that it only took some careless (yes, as in, he couldn't care any less) individual to bring this horrifying froth to the surface. You may not see this wherever you are, Doc, but there have been quite a few incidents already of women, gays, Latinx and non-Christians being threatened "because now Trump is gonna be in control and you better watch your step." For the threatened, just waiting quietly for four years doesn't cut it. Here in my own urban neighborhood, long considered a liberal bastion, there have been swastikas popping up, drawn on sidewalks and buildings. It doesn't exactly inspire a sense of safety, and I'm not even Jewish (the ostensible targets in this neighborhood) - because none of the assholes who decide to take action are going to ask my ethnic/religious background first, are they?
So while I actually agree with you that constant protest marches are not going to help in the long run, I'm not going to tell my sisters and brothers who are afraid that they can't take some time to voice that fear.
And then the work begins. Trump has already signaled that he will dismantle, as fast as he can, any civil liberties/environmental progress that was made under Obama. Those of us in opposition may not have any federal power, at least for the next two years, but we have some power at the state and local levels. And we must fight, with whatever tools we can find, to oppose the damage, shelter the vulnerable, and make ourselves resilient while we wait for better days.
If you think I'm suggesting that you "just wait quietly for 4 years", then you missed my main point. That is, if you don't like what you see (which you obviously don't), then fix it when you can.Delete
What I'm against is people protesting his win. They don't like it, I get that. But protesting a legal election is ridiculous, stupid, and ultimately fruitless. Protesting the man is just as stupid and fruitless as it will only strengthen his resolve.
Middle ground, people. Middle ground.
It's not fruitless. The Republican voting demographic is aging and dying off. The only reason Trump won is because Hillary is so awful (and I say that as a Hillary voter). If they ever want to see voters make them a majority seat again, they'll listen.Delete
So what happened to your Latino voting bloc?Delete
I share absolutely NO core values with Trump.Delete
Anon, the majority of Latino's still vote Democrat even in this election. The vote was so split on both sides because both candidates were deplorable. Hillary won popular vote by 200k. That's not even half percentage point.Delete
I don't think anyone on either side can truly be counted as a statistic for Democrats or Republicans considering what they were voting for.
Democrats that are normally against Republicans were voting for Trump because Hillary is that bad. I have family that are die hard Republicans that voted Hillary because Trump is that bad.
We had to choose between which criminal (and they are BOTH criminals) was more palatable.
I'm not protesting his win. I'm protesting his POLICIES. I've contributed to the ACLU and Planned Parenthood, and I'll be marching in Washington the day after the inauguration for the same reason. Most of those protesting are doing it for the same reason. The wish for a "do-over" is a moot point, and the vast majority of us know that. However, we will be IN HIS FACE from here out. Civil rights are being defended, from this moment on.ReplyDelete
Excuse me Doc, but who told you that "Racism and hate in the United States was supposed to be solved by its first black president"?ReplyDelete
A) Nobody elected Obama to "solve" America's race problem nor did he ever promise to -- he's always been smarter than that. B) In case you missed it during your Differential Diagnosis, America has been diseased for centuries. That is the legacy of a nation built on greed & violence against non-Whites in service of greed. First the European colonizers came to these shores & tried but failed to enslave the Native Americans. Then they went abroad, kidnapped Africans & transported 2 million of them here as forced free labor to build a "new nation". Our Black first family occupies a White House that was built by slaves, as Michelle Obama so poignantly reminded the world not long ago. And slavery cannot exist anywhere without systematic, constant oppression through violence. In a nation that was founded on Whites enslaving Blacks, hatred & violence are bound to be inherent in White America's DNA. And no one can change their DNA.
No disrespect Doc, but you are safely ensconced in England or Canada or some other land where you rest securely in your White privileged & are not subject to a newly-elected raging bigot whose promised policies represent a real & serious threat to you & yours. None of your relatives face being banned from entering, or returning to, your country to rejoin their families because they are Muslims. I come from a big, multi-ethnic family & that shit is a Very Real Threat for my loved ones! So I would appreciate it if you would refrain from characterizing the thousands of folks across this country -- people of all races, ethnicities & both genders -- who are protesting against Dump as sore losers whose efforts are "NOT HELPING" when you yourself have no skin in the game. Telling us to wait until "Next Time" is the same bullshit they tried to tell MLK -- he didn't fall for that & neither are we.
I intend to show Dump the same level of respect for the office & civility that he showed Obama after he was elected in 2008. Which is exactly none. Dump made a point of spreading the lie that Obama wasn't born in the US in order to de-legitimize his presidency from Day One. And the racist contingent was agreeing with him long before Cheeto ever thought of running for office. I wasn't hanging out out here back then, but did you post an impassioned essay railing against how Dump & the rest of the Birthers were "NOT HELPING" back when that happened? If so, pls. post a link for me.
Birtherism, a completely illegitimate movement based on a lie, emboldened elected Republican officials like John Boner & Bitch McConnell -- men who have sworn to uphold the Constitution & the laws of this land -- to admit publicly to their obstructionist plot to block any & all legislation put forward by President Obama. They wore their racism proudly without ever stating it openly. That was the beginning of the coded, dog-whistle politics we've all seen metastasize throughout this nation over the last 8 years. And how many essays did you write telling those folks that they were "NOT HELPING"?
The blatant racism of the Birther movement & the Republican obstructionism in Congress made me sick to my stomach. Never in my life have I felt so humiliated to be an American. I will NEVER forget or forgive that shit & I place the blame for it squarely on Dump's yellow-cockatoo-covered head. So I will disrespect him & insult him, I will refuse to recognize him as president & I will hope that he has a stroke before the inauguration, or anytime after, every day of my life until he is out of office. THAT is what Dump deserves from me & mine.
I haven't been marching in the streets yet, but I know I will be soon. I know because the other threat, beyond his religious bigotry that you conveniently ignored in your essay, is Cheeto's claim that he would have Black Lives Matter declared a terrorist group. Because Dump has made it clear that he will give carte blanche to the police, the wanton execution of Black people by rogue cops is about to replace baseball as the national pastime.
Doc, YOU will never have to have The Talk with your kids when they are adolescents, warning them of how to behave in order to stay alive if the cops stop them. Even when they are innocent & unarmed, being polite & obedient towards the police is no guarantee that a Black son or daughter won't end up dead. You probably don't even know anyone who has been shot by the police while doing nothing illegal. As president, Dump's racism & lack of respect for the value of Black people's lives poses a very real threat to me & mine -- you get that, right? So I am quite sure I will be out marching in the streets very soon to protest the racist bigot who is about to take office.
And please, spare me the admonishments about tarring everyone with the same brush. You can't tell me that the majority of Dump supporters aren't just as racist as he is. Until YOU wake up brown or black & have to live with racism every day, you don't get to tell people of color who is & is not a racist. The fact that an opportunistic ex-reality show loser like Omarosa & Ben Carson, the most unscientifically-minded doctor I've ever seen, supported Dump doesn't change the fact that 80% of Black Americans voted for Hillary. Her problem was that 96% of us voted for Obama the last time around. This time, a goodly portion of Black voters simply left the presidential box blank or stayed home -- that's what did Hillary in. But the erosion of Black support for Hillary does not mean that the vast majority of black & brown people don't know that Dump is a racist. Even House Speaker Paul Ryan said that Cheeto's attacks on judge Gonzalo Curiel because of his Mexican heritage constituted “the textbook definition of a racist comment” when he said that shit back in June.
"A tree is know by it's fruit", Doc. Apple trees don't produce oranges, lime trees don't yield grapefruits. And people who aren't bigots don't go around making bigoted remarks every chance they get. And not to pile on the cliches, but if it walks like a duck, acts like a duck & quacks like a duck, it's a duck. And if you support a duck, then you're pretty much a duck yourself.
When you were a kid, didn't your parents teach you "You're known by the company you keep"? People who don't get high don't hang out with stoners because that's not what they're about. Folks who don't espouse bigotry against Mexicans, women, Muslims etc. don't support a politician who does. And you'd best believe we intend to call out a public bigot, esp. one who's about to be president.
I will always have much love & respect for you & what your blog providers for us, Doc, But you are missing the obvious if you can't see that Dump clearly took several pages from Hitler's playbook during the Führer's well-planned ascent to power. A Demagogue is defined as "a political leader who seeks support by appealing to popular desires and prejudices rather than by using rational argument." That describes exactly who Dump is & how he got elected. By playing the demagogue, Cheeto made bigotry popular, even acceptable, in ways it has not been in the last 50 years. When Dump bragged about "making America great again", that was code for restoring "the good old days", i.e. the post-war era (Dump was born in 1946) when White men controlled everything & everyone in this country, while Blacks were catching hell left & right. Hitler espoused very similar principles. The biggest difference between Hitler & Dump is that Hitler targeted Jews instead of Blacks, Mexicans & Muslims.
But make no mistake -- Dump's narcissism & unbridled ego, coupled with his inability to accept criticism & the support of a Republican-controlled Congress (& his chance to pack the Supreme Court), will lead him down the same path to fascism that Hitler tread, UNLESS millions of Americans make it plain that we won't accept a dictator in the White House.
And before you try to claim it was all just trash talk, since being elected, Trump was asked if he regrets any of the divisive rhetoric he used during the campaign. His response: "No. I won." So it wasn't just for show -- Dump meant every bigoted word he spewed over the last 18 months.
And I'm gonna give that racist orange julius jackass & the other jackasses who voted for him hell as often a I can. Just as I hope you would if you were an American.
Sigh. So would Donald Trump make a good president? Honestly, I don't think so. However, playing the devil's advocate, there are certain attributes that would make him a good president.Delete
Firstly, whenever we think of a president, we think of a somewhat flawless human that has great superiority and intelligence and whose reputation would never be tarnished by their personality. This is because we never really are able to see their "dark side" (everyone had one). Then we think of Donald Trump! I'm sure many of us have seen his impulsive and inconsiderate comments with racial undertones. At this point, he isn't an unknown commodity and we probably have seen most of his worst attributes already. This creates a form of transparency and trust with citizen as they who they're voting for... Which is definitely better a manipulative devil wearing a saints mask.
Secondly, Trump has a confidence and powerful personality that, like it or not, tend to work well in politics, and make it far less likely he would become too strongly beholden to this or external forms of influence - we complain often about our elected officials being in the pocket of lobbyists and special interests, but Trump is his own special interest and he seems unlikely to let his own sense of personal power and rightness become manipulated or dominated by external forces. Give him a chance.
Violence is in HUMAN DNA. and don't insult cockatoos like that.Delete
RC - While I sincerely appreciate your comment, I do not appreciate your accusatory tone towards me. In case you didn't notice, I 1) wasn't blogging in 2008, and 2) don't write about politics. But even if I had been writing when Obama was elected, I wouldn't have written about it because I wasn't worried about him the way I am with Trump. I am sincerely worried about the international implications of his presidency. Don't be so naive as to think it will only affect Americans. People around the world are scared.Delete
As for racism and the history of the US, I appreciate the lesson, but I didn't mean to imply that he himself made any promises of ending racism. But that what the world got out of it - Obama was the first black president of the US, so race relations should get better. But it didn't.
Sadly you have fallen into the same "Trump is racist, so his supporters are too" trap that so many others have. You've also fallen into the "Trump is Hitler" trap. That surprises me, RC. What surprises me more is your promise of protesting in the streets. What do you honestly hope to gain? Did you not read what I wrote? Do you think marching in the street denouncing the president will help America's sickness? It will make it worse. IT WILL MAKE IT WORSE.
Way too many people are somehow interpreting this post as me supporting Trump. Let me make this abundantly clear: I DO NOT ENDORSE, SUPPORT, LIKE, OR ADMIRE DONALD TRUMP.
I'm not asking you to support him or his ideas. I'm not asking you to give him a chance. I'm not asking you to like him. I'm simply asking you and everyone else not to make it worse.
@anon: so I'm supposed to feel BETTER knowing he's a liar, a cheat, a grifter, and a racist sexist a**? the fact that I KNOW he's untrustworthy is supposed to make me trust him?Delete
you haven't heard the rumors he's heavily in debt to Russian businessmen? you didn't notice that Hillary could cause him to explode on cue?
You should turn off the TV once in a while.Delete
I will say this exactly one time: the comments will stay civil, or they will be deleted and comments shut down.ReplyDelete
I know people are variably angry, upset, excited, and/or scared about this topic, and I suspected things would get very heated very quickly. But we WILL stay respectful.
That is all.
Well. This deteriorated rather quickly.ReplyDelete
Trump has that effect on things.
Far too many toothless, middle-aged, ragged Americans look in the mirror and see a Hollywood star in his or her 20s, just as having an election starting with "campaigns" that last more than a year and ending with a President who lost that election is called "democracy." It is the opposite of democracy, or perhaps it should be called an "idiocracy," though the society portrayed in the movie with that title looks rather intelligent by comparison!ReplyDelete
For all of you who claim supporting Dump doesn't make you a bigot like he is, this is what his "victory" has unleashed already. This is what we have to look forward to as the sheets come off of all the closet Klansmen & their children.ReplyDelete
And THIS is why folks have to be out in the streets protesting -- not because we think his win wasn't legit, but because Dump does NOT represent this nations' values or its people! (Sorry, but I dunno how to make the links clickable here.)
As I’m stopped at a gas station this morning, a group of guys yell over: “Time to get out of this country, Apu!” Day 1.
— Manik R (@ManikRathee) November 9, 2016
Someone spray painted “Black lives don’t matter and neither does your votes” on a wall in Durham overnight. pic.twitter.com/Idfm5T8RFg
— Derrick Lewis (@DerrickQLewis) November 9, 2016
This link is to several different Tweets about close encounters with Dump supporters since election day.
Guys, a trump supporter tried pulling off my hijab... This is not a joke anymore, all non-whites have become targets. Stay safe ��
— bye (@Palestixian) November 9, 2016
Doc, when you read stories like this, how can you tell me as an American that standing up & speaking out against a bigot like Dump is going to "make matters worse"?
Why would I not stand up for myself & the black & brown & Muslim folks that I love when they're faced with his kind of blatant hatred? How craven would I be if I let that stand unchallenged?
Protesting against bigots does NOT make things worse -- it puts the haters on notice that their hatred won't be tolerated! Unless & until Dump himself is man enough to speak out against these bigots PUBLICLY, then protestors will have to let them know that we're not having it. That's what our rights to free speech & free assembly are for.
(And if this blog wasn't around in in 2008, then I apologize for wondering if you'd spoken about out the Birthers.)
Trump is not racist or a bigot. Islam is not a race; this simple fact defeats the racism argument. "Undocumented immigrants" are not a race; this fact further defeats the racism argument. There is a parable I read once about a species similar to man that went extinct. The species was so politically correct that it could not judge anything regardless of past experience. The tigers that circled their encampments and picked people off could not be judged, because each time it could have been a different tiger, and even if it was the same one, it was a new moment in time, and the tiger could have changed. The point was that learning to judge other living things (including people) based on past experience is an evolutionary necessity. Failure to do so is suicide. Trump has identified a tiger circling our camp, and wants to keep it out while we figure out how best to handle it. This is an entirely rational response. I would prefer he went a lot farther and not only put a temporary hold on Muslims, but began actively evacuating Christians (who are in dire need of assistance) from ISIS-occupied lands and their neighbors. The fact is that taking in a Muslim also means passing up a Christian who needs assistance - there are, after all, quotas at work. Why would we ever favor an alien ideology that has nothing to do with our national heritage over a Christian one? An iota of sanity is all it takes to see the absurdity of it. As I said in response to your previous video, I still believe America is doomed even with Trump. My personal goal is to bring as many people to the Truth as possible so that when I stand to account for my life I am able to point to that achievement, however minor it is in the grand scheme. If Trump, through common sense solutions, can extend this period of relative global stability by five, ten, or fifty years, I will take what I can get to give myself more time to accomplish what I can of my goal. The inevitable, though delayed, remains inevitable. Cheers.Delete
What video are you talking about?Delete
to trump, everyone with brown skin and an arabic accent is a muslimterrorist.Delete
that is racism.
the good news for you is that when Trump repeals the first amendment to get rid of protections on the free press, it will also eliminate the protection on religious freedom, and you can petition to have whatever sect you worship declared our national religion and begin converting heretics by the sword. better start shaking the collection plates awfully hard, though. because what Trump loves is money.
RC - You still are not seeing my point. Understand this very carefully:Delete
I am NOT saying "Sit down and shut up".
I am NOT saying "You're wrong, Trump is right".
I am NOT saying "Do not be upset".
I am NOT saying "Trump supporters aren't doing hateful things".
At the same time, the anti-Trump "protests" have devolved, as expected, into riots. You want news stories? How about these:
- "71 arrested after anti-Trump protest turns into riot" http://www.kgw.com/news/local/anti-trump-protesters-march-for-fifth-straight-night/351400705
- "Anti-Trump protesters march for 3rd night; Portland police call it a 'riot'" http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/11/us/oregon-protest-riot/
- "Anti-Trump Protest In Portland, Ore., Turns Destructive, Declared A Riot" http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/11/11/501685976/anti-trump-protest-in-portland-ore-turns-destructive-declared-a-riot
This is constructive in your view? Please do explain how this is helping, RC. Please explain how marching in the street will change anyone's mind. Please help me understand how you think this will get Trump and his supporters to tone down the hate.
I've seen the news stories of swastikas and "Build The Wall" chants. Do you think these hateful people doing these hateful things will do this LESS after watching anti-Trump protests and riots?
When Obama was first elected, the prevailing opinion of your side was, "Well, you may not like him, you may not have voted for him, but you should respect him and the position of president." I saw this time and again (and I wish I could find an article about it), and I read it with fascination at the time. I'm not saying his opponents took that advice, but that was the advice given. But now that the tables are turned, you have taken the exact opposite stance, which is "NOT MY PRESIDENT". How do you not see the hypocrisy?
This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about, RC. This is EXACTLY why I wrote this piece. And you *still* aren't understanding my message, which is NOT to sit down and take it. You want to protest? Then write your politicians. Call them. Call and write to Trump and everyone else you can think of. Tell them all how you feel, how your family feels, how your community feels. And then make sure you vote them the hell out next time.
It's very noble of you to tell people to set their feelings aside when you will never have to experience any of the racism that is surging through the country right now.Delete
Look, I know you mean well Doc, but for someone who claims to be vested in American politics you don't know much about them. Both sides have been intentionally obstructive, spitefully so, since Bush. Our congress deliberately refuses to work together. We could write all we want to senators but they have made it abundantly clear that it if smells even faintly of Democrat ideals they'll ignore it. You're better off writing a letter to put in the paper shredder.
It's a bit trite to say that if only congress was polite and well mannered people wouldn't have to fight tooth and nail for their rights. Maybe where you're from being polite changes things, but here it historically has not. People didn't abolish the Jim Crow laws until civil rights threw a massive fit about it. Trump and his supporters aren't going to tone down their hate, but we CAN make it clear that it's not tolerated.
I do not support Trump and I will not be asking him politely for anything. He has made it abundantly clear that being "in your face" and loud is what gets things done, so that's what we're going to do.
What does protesting do? It lets everyone know that you won't stand quietly by while people get their rights taken away. You may not agree with the riots, but riots are the voices of the unheard, and the Republicans have made it clear time and time again that they will NOT hear us unless we MAKE them.
But if you want to get on your high horse about it, how about taking a good look at your own country and it's crippling dependence on the US. Yes, I do understand your point. Confrontation makes people uncomfortable. You aren't listening to us telling you that we are past the point of polite discourse and the above reasons outlined by RC and everyone else posting are why.
You are sadly mistaken regarding Obama. On the day of his first inauguration Mitch McMconnell announced that the Republican's number one priority was insuring Obama was a one term president. They then preceded to block every single thing he tried to accomplish for the next 8 years. Oh, that was in addition to trying to say he wasn't a legitimate president. Have you forgotten all of the Birther nonsense already?Delete
Like Bill Maher said, Obama bent over backwards trying to make his blackness less scary. He kept trying to reach a compromise long after it was obvious the Republicans were never going to meet him in the middle.
Like spoiled children they shut down the government rather than compromise. The fact that they refused to even consider his SCOTUS nominee 10 months before the election was unprecedented and frankly unconstitutional.
You don't get to cry about hypocrisy now.
Anon - you are absolutely defining my point. Obstructionism gets the country nowhere. That is what the protesters and the "NOT MY PRESIDENT" crowd are endorsing. Obstructionism is what you are doing, and also what you are complaining about. That is the hypocrisy I'm talking about.Delete
Shark and RC - I will say this exactly one time, and I mean it with all due respect (I mean that). Neither of you knows a thing about me, my history, my family, or my culture, and both of you have made the same assumption about me. Do not do it again, and do not lecture me about racism.
I will not address that point again. I trust I have made it clear.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to make assumptions about you or your family. I'm beyond frustrated. I and people in my family will be personally affected by these policies that the right wants in one way or another.Delete
Doc, you may not like hearing that protesting is our only outlet right now, but that doesn't make it any less true.
As you said, both sides have been obstructing each other to the point of idiocy. This country is so divided because congress refuses to be anything other than be tone deaf to half the country. So what makes you think that writing a letter that's only going to be ignored is going to do? Voting only flips the tables to the other side being ignored.
We could hold hands and write letters until our knuckles bleed. Uniting as people doesn't suddenly change the fact that congress is corrupt and no longer for anyone besides their own self interests. Republicans and Democrats both are guilty of thinking that uniting means "agree" instead of "compromise". So we can't unite until both sides start finding a middle ground...that they refuse to find, and with Republicans as majority rule right now they have no incentive to.
If Clinton won and we had a Democrat rule, Trump supporters would be protesting as well because both sides have made it abundantly clear that unless you're on the same team as them you don't matter.
I remember very clearly voting every single time, signing petitions, making endorsements, and still having congress obstruct everything with no compromises, and that's when we had a Democrat president.
It's not hypocritical to talk to congress in the only way they'll listen. They've made it clear we have no other outlets.
So please understand that when you say write letters and vote, it only comes of as patronizing and a long winded version of "just silently comply and fall in line". We've BEEN doing that the last 16 years on both sides to no avail. From Bush brazenly starting a stupid and pointless war to Obama refusing to help these economically challenged areas in rural areas out.
It's reached a breaking point for all parties involved, its just the Democrats lost and the Republicans won.
I understand you're frustrated. Much of the world is frustrated. Please don't take it out on the guy who is trying his best to help.Delete
Writing letters isn't enough. Apparently it's phone calls that are most effective. A former staffer wrote a string of tweets detailing how effective it is. Much more than marching. Read more here: http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/12/politics/utah-woman-twitter-advice/index.html
You have 4 years (at least) of this - make it count.
We also need to reflect on the reality we've already seen and experienced in the past, with almost *all* elections we've observed...whether at the local, state, or federal level. There always ends up to be a big difference between what the candidate *says* s/he will do if elected, and what *really* ends up happening.Delete
Part of this is due to the nature of campaigning...a candidate's "plan" will be some combination of personal opinions and beliefs, and some element of what s/he thinks the voters want to hear. The goal of campaigning is only to *get* elected.
Then, the bigger part of it due to actually getting in office and learning the job. Becoming an elected official does not grant absolute power. There are those bothersome realities like needing the support of the legislative bodies to actually make something a law, the laws and Constitution already in place, a budget that's limited by the amount of revenue actually available in one's jurisdiction, and, of course, those constituents that are constantly raising issues important to *them.* Balancing all of this can't be done by waving a magic wand.
Point being...we know what our President-Elect *said* during the campaign. We need to see what he will *do.* The problem with "protesting" right now is that we don't have any real *focus* for that action, and won't until we see what he tries to do once in office.
currently, what he is doing is draining the swamp INTO Washington DC by hiring every deplorable he can find to be in his cabinet.Delete
The appointment of Stephen Bannon as Trump's chief strategist in the White House today makes it difficult for some of us to find the middle ground and wait to see what will happen. He is associated with the “alt-right” movement, which white nationalists have embraced (described as Skinheads with Intelligence and Suits). These type of appointments are exactly what a lot of the protesters feared after seeing Trump elected. And this is only the beginning. I agree that the current protests will not change a thing. Trump will still be our president come January. But I believe the protests will soon become real action and organization. We will need that for the Midterm Elections. Sadly though, with 2 years of unchecked power (Republicans now control all branches of government) and control of SCOTUS, we - and the entire world - will be feeling the implications of this presidency for decades to come. And I do not believe it is going to be a good feeling for anyone, no matter their political bent. -TamReplyDelete
There is a huge difference in a peaceful (legal) protest and a straight up.... riot. These are riots. Last night I saw homemade poster boards that said "rape Milania" and "kill Trump supporters" and to online bully Trump supporters to the point that they commit suicide. Protesters don't burn police cars, loot, and tear up cities. Call it what it is, riots. And these college kids crying and needing a safe place? Boo-hoo. You lost. Take it on the chin and vote NEXT TIME.ReplyDelete
there are two groups, just as in the BLM riots. there are the people who want to air their grievances, and there are the people that want to use the confusion as cover for their destructive thrills. the second group is the same an ANY demonstration. and has been cited as the reason for protests being cancelled.Delete
I totally agree. The destructive behaviors of the riot mentality actually *hurt* the mission of letting our elected or appointed officials know that we intend to hold them accountable. It just makes it easier for them to *dismiss* the dissenters as a bunch of criminals and thugs.Delete
the first noght that the demonstrations were shifting to riots in Portland, the demonstrators were trying to contain the rioters. I think after that, they kind of gave up on it.Delete
Interesting comments for sure. We come from different parts of the landscape of the United States and have very different views of this President elect (Trump). I agree with Doc that protesting and pounding fists and jumping up and down in anger and frustration is going to help in any way. This man was elected and we, as people of the United States voted him in. Arguing that we 'won't accept' him now is too late in the game.ReplyDelete
I lived in NYC and now I live in rural farm country. I see the differences in how differently people think. I have close family that have money that live in the southern USA. They are happy Trump got in and the black man will finally be gone. They don't say it quite that way, but thats what they are feeling there. So, prejudice is not gone in this country.
People are in a panic. They don't know what to do next. They are afraid. I think the news outlets are making it worse. They are instilling fear. I believe some of the fear is worth having...and because of that Doc is right. We need to work on 'what comes next'. We can't change what already happened. Trump won and he will be the next president.
People in areas where there are no jobs because they are outsourced...they want to believe this man is going to help them. They heard the promise that this new man won't let China take away their jobs. I think education is needed. Afterall, Pottery Barn and many other upscale stores sell goods made in China. People need to be educated in this country as to how the system really works. Did they really believe that stopping China imports was going to make it easier for them? Goods from China became popular because we can't produce goods here reasonably because our workers expect too much money. Our landlords charge too much rent in their commercial buildings and the real estate is expensive. All the parts for your appliances would more than double and that 400.00 stove would now cost 800.00. Lets not even get into the fact that these factories pollute the environment.
These are not easy solutions.
Want to talk about the blacks and the police? There aren't more instances of this happening these days. There is statistically less. There are more instances of it being reported and on social media and in the news. Fear mongering at its best.
There isn't enough room on this blog to say what is really wrong with this country but education and some personal responsibility will go a long way in fixing what is wrong with this country. Entitlement is rampant here.
Why do people here need huge vehicles that they simply 'must have' which use up more gas...and then complaining about the price of gas. This country needs to face reality but they don't want to. They want to have granite counter tops and huge brand new kitchens and leave their not that much older cabinets in the landfills. Not their problem.
Then we have FLINT and their water supply. Should be a simple matter to just go in and change their water pipes but somehow that has escaped everyone; yet they are going to go ahead now with a pipeline to bring tar down from Canada? Seriously, there is a lot wrong with this country that needs fixing.
Protesting isn't going to solve the problem. Being angry is ok and even warranted, but make that anger work for you...not against.
You have elucidated my main points perfectly.Delete
Thank you very much, Anon.
upper management now makes 300 TIMES what the workers make - not 300%, 300 TIMES.Delete
Henry Ford had plenty of warts and foibles, but he had the brilliant idea of paying his workers well enough that they could buy Ford automobiles. a concept which seems to be lost on the average businessman.
Salute his policies not the man. Yes, I'm proud Trump voter. Go riot some more and show your true liberal color!ReplyDelete
You're dangerously close to being deleted, Anon.Delete
Since you're a Trump voter, why don't you educate us on *why* you voted for him. Which policies of his exactly do you support?
If further comments on this thread are deleted, you can be assured it was because of racism or other inexcusable or unacceptable hate.
Which policy? Here: https://www.donaldjtrump.com/policies/immigrationDelete
@ Anonymous14 November 2016 at 17:15Delete
I hope neither you nor your parents or anyone you love are close to retirement age. Paul Ryan and Trump can barely wait replace Medicare with a government-funded voucher system and make people buy their own old-age health insurance. It's essentially the same plan as the ACA (Obamacare) that they claim just doesn't work, but will force people over 65 to try and find affordable healthcare coverage. Nice. Insurance companies just love covering old people - the people most likely to have pre-existing conditions or need expensive care.
They also want to privatize Social Security. You know, the stuff we've all paid into all of our working lives? Yeah. Now they don't want the government to have to deal with any of that anymore.
As far as liberals showing their true colors, maybe we should go out and take over some National Park land and claim it as our own, and stop paying taxes because we believe the government is illegitimate, or maybe shoot up a few churches and schools; think back hard on all of the horrendous activity in this country in the last eight years -- it historically is ultra conservative fundies committing all the terror activity.
Let's all agree to come back here in a couple of years and see if you Trump supporters are quite as happy with your choice as you are right now.
I hate to say it but we can not afford these programs. Not because anybody does not want to pay their taxes but because we literally (dollar value) cannot afford this. Not this and not any of these other programs where the government steals from Americans, borrows from other countries, and inflates our dollar to support this. WE ARE BROKE. We have got to let the people take care of each other rather than let the government steal and do it in our place. This just skyrockets these costs. If we don't balance the budget people my age will be in an infinity worse situation when we retire then seniors have now. Medicare should have never been passed as a law for alot of good logical reasons, it created the mentality that your have a right to these services. You cant argue with me because your only argument is moral responsibility. If that's the case i would remind you that medicare is not free, the government has to steal money(IMMORAL!) from the taxpayer to fund it.Delete
Without Medicare or even ACA how are seniors supposed to afford healthcare? Should we just all die when we turn 65?Delete
Steal money from the taxpayer? You do realize we all pay into the system and qualify once we are of age. It's more like Congress dips into those funds, Social Security and Medicare, for other purposes. That's why we risk a shortfall.
This comment has been removed by the author.Delete
Anonymous14 November 2016 at 20:11 -- Don't confuse Medicare with Medicaid. Medicare has been deducted from every paycheck I have earned, along with Social Security. Why would you think we can't afford it, unless, like the other Anon said, Congress has stolen our money for other purposes like bridges going to nowhere. And you say "We have got to let the people take care of each other rather than let the government steal and do it in our place." WTF do you think taxes are but people taking care of each other? Do you want to pay every time you need police or fire department assistance? No more public schools or road improvements or ANYthing for the common good?. If you want to go Galt, be my guest; don't expect me to join you in your little dystopia.Delete
"WE ARE BROKE"Delete
And we'll be trillions more in the hole after Trump's policies are enacted.
I know I've said it before, but I'll say it again. I'm not a Trump voter, don't like him, never did, don't trust him. But on the other hand, neither am I a Hillary voter. I don't trust her either, and never did. I didn't like the way she handled her Hillary care development when she was first lady. She was secretive, and the plan she came up with with punitive and authoritarian. She had no physicians on her planning committee, it was mostly lawyers. She was sued for violation of federal statutes for transparency, and lost.ReplyDelete
There are so many reasons now that I don't care for her and wouldn't trust her as president, but I see no need to go into it now. It's all out there.
I think that if the "campaign season" were drastically shortened from the length it is now, and the political committees could figure out a way to serve up more reasonable candidates in the primary, perhaps we'd have some well-qualified and not corrupt candidates we could vote for.
When I said in a previous comment that my head is going to explode, this is why. I was not at all displeased that Hillary will not be president, but then my mind turns to the president elect. Oh, god. Then it flips back to the alternative, and again I think, Oh, god. Could we have had two worse choices?
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.ReplyDelete
Fuck off, troll.Delete
THAT'S your priority?ReplyDelete
How does same sex marriage impact on you?
Roe V. Wade; the number of abortions has gone down 125,000 since OBAMA took office. Increasing the availability of birth control has helped dramatically. Do you support increasing research in order to improve birth control until it is universally available, low to no cost, and free from side effects? No? I'm SHOCKED! Do you use birth control? I sure do, and I've been monogamous and married for 30 years. If you say "use abstinence," do you? Abstinence doesn't work. Abstinence only education leads to HIGHER rates of unplanned/unwanted pregnancy. I give you Exhibit A, Sarah Palins daughter, who got paid TONS of money to teach abstinence and yet has (oopsie!) had 2 unplanned pregnancies.
One mire thing, if you're such a proud Trump supporter, why are you anonymous?
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Delete
I'm an atheist. That's still legal. I notice (while rolling my eyes and giggling) that instead of answering, you quote from your bible. I can quote it too! Ezekiel 23:20Delete
I think we all got far off the subject - and that was these poor pitiful people that need a safe place to suck their thumb after their candidate lost. That's the way the electoral process works and has worked for hundreds of years. Tearing cities up, hate speech on poster boards, and demanding a "do over" is perfectly reminiscent of the generation in which we gave the losers trophies. And stopped spanking kids, and started time out. Pretty much the same demographic of these protesteror/rioters you can count back to the days when parents were afraid to spank for fear of getting their kids taken away from them, and everybody got picked for a team, even if "Johnny" threw the ball to third base every time. And we must not forget they all got trophies for playing the sport, even when they lost. In my opinion, the protestors protesting violence are creating violence -much like Doc Bastard said - they're generalizing Trump supporters, like they didn't want to be generalized.ReplyDelete
I don't know who said it but we, the consumer also do pay for Medicare. I am on SSDI and must pay for it. I don't get a choice. I get a choice of a plan but not how much I'll have to pay. I still pay social security out of my monthly disability check.
We as a country are divided and divided we will fall. Until the other 50% of us start uniting because we're all just Americans and let's see what the man can do for us. He can't fail before he's sworn in. Give him a chance. I took it on the chin when Obama won, twice and now the silent majority has spoken. Give the man a chance to right the wrongs. Like him love him or hate him, he is still our President Elect.
and this is why we think of Trump voters as meatheads throwing temper tantrums.Delete
millennials Are the single most "entitled" spoiled brat generation I've ever seen. And that's your demographic for the riots. They've never been told no. They've never had adjust. They've never had to take it on the chin and do what you can do for the good of all American people and vote again, in 4-8 years.ReplyDelete
funny, boomers are the most self-entitled generation I have seen.Delete
Also, he didn't say we'd stop imports and exports. He said he'd renegotiate them. We pay thousands and thousands of dollars to get imports, and our we are paid pennies on the dollar to export. No doubt there is a world economy at stake here but the free export to America train has stopped and it's time every other country who wants their goods in America pay us well for it. Most good negotiators are bullies. That's what makes them a good negotiator.ReplyDelete
and guess who benefits from the cheap imports from china.Delete
I'll give you three guesses and any that don't start with "Tr" and end with "ump" don't count.
Perhaps you have not noticed that the Chinese can send their items here very cheaply through the mail. We have to pay a fortune to export via mail. Just look on ebay.Delete
I was just going to say, getting toys and clothes from the manufacturers directly in China is far cheaper than an American store. So if you're paying more for foreign made, it's the stores driving up prices for a profit.Delete
Hey Doc, you've touched a nerve...well, actually, more like poked a hornet's nest.ReplyDelete
As I stated in my disclaimer, I knew this would be controversial. It was intended to open a dialog, and I think it has been successful so far.Delete
I didn't mean to suggest it was a bad thing. People tend to get all riled up when it comes to politics and religion. I get fired up myself, at least over politics. I'm not religious but that subject bothers me when folks try to force their beliefs on everyone through political means.Delete
This is what Senator Bernie Sanders has to say and I wholeheartedly agree:ReplyDelete
In the days since the election people are angry. People are upset. And they want to express their point of view that they are very frightened, in very, very strong disagreement with Mr. Trump, who has made bigotry the cornerstone of his campaign. We have a First Amendment in this country, and I think that people all over are saying, “Mr. Trump, we have come too far in this country fighting discrimination and bigotry. We’re not going back. And if you’re going to continue that effort, you’re going to have to take us on.”
Trump has chosen Steve Bannon to be his chief White House strategist. The man is a white nationalist. No mystery why the KKK is having a rally to celebrate Trump's nomination.
This is not acceptable, this is not normal, this does not reflect American values. Remaining silent is not an option.
Million Women March on Washington, January 21st 10:00am to 5:00pm
This is a solidarity march in support of everyone who is in danger of being marginalized.
Well said, thank you.Delete
DocBastard, I agree we really should keep it civil and not allow anyone to resort to name calling - even when referring to Clinton or Trump. We like to blame millenials and call them irresponsible brats. But look at us even on this comment section. We are name calling and very angry over something that has not yet happened. We have taught the millenials. The fine art of responsibility is to apologize when one is wrong or has made a mistake. I am tired of the constant spouting of those say it is ok to protest but once those turns to riots, is there an apology? Doubt it. If Trump turns into a stellar president will there apologies? Doubt it. If Trump fails as a president will his supporters apologize for choosing wrongly? I doubt that too. I would suggest we all write down what we think Trump will do and then in another paragraph write down what you would want him to do, put it in a jar and open it again in 4 years, but I doubt that will happen either. Apologies all around for certain. Be gracious, do something amazing to help bring about change. Too many are thinking that riots bring change - by my observance, they are bringing division. JMHOReplyDelete
But it's not just Trump and what he has already said, which is bad enough. Look at the people he is surrounding himself with, people who will have tremendous power once he's in office. The country is and has been divided. Now suddenly we should all sit down, be quiet and play nice?Delete
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke
How many times do I have to keep saying the same thing? Let me try again.Delete
I AM NOT SAYING TO SIT DOWN AND BE QUIET. That is not my point at all, and if you still believe it is, then you have either A) not read what I have written multiple times, or B) chosen to ignore it.
I think anon was addressing the fact Trump is calling for everyone to be nice, now that his own bad behavior has gotten him what he wanted.Delete
Thanks Ken. Can you imagine if the tables were turned and Trump had won the popular vote but lost the electoral college? Actually, we don't even have to imagine because he said quite plainly that he would only accept the results if he won.Delete
Hey, Anonymous at 23:31 - I said do something amazing to bring about change. I didn't say sit down and be quiet. It is all too easy for people to get angry, spout off, riot, act like an idiot. It takes intestinal fortitude to bring about change and work for something better. That means get involved, it doesn't mean act stupid and create riots that small business owners have to clean up or file insurance claims and then see their premiums increase. It means form a neighborhood group, create new ways to help resolve social issues. It means to set examples, form something much more powerful than an idiotic riot and something that is sustainable.Delete
Who said anything about rioting? I plan on attending the Million Women March on Washington. It's focus is standing in solidarity with all of the marginalized groups that were maligned during trump's campaign. Marching is not rioting.Delete
I also attended many of the anti-war demonstrations during the run-up to the war in Iraq. We marched trying to prevent what turned out to be the biggest foreign policy bungle in our lifetimes, not counting Viet Nam if you're old enough. The two largest in this country were each attended by 100,000 plus people in Washington, DC and New York City. Both were peaceful and consisted of all age groups and nationalities, from youngsters to aging Hippies.
Marching is about being heard. Emails and letters are read by staffers and they decide what filters its way to the intended recipient. From all accounts Trump's roster of likely advisors would not be the receptive type in any event.
I object to referring to protest marches as "riots".
An excellent article on the dangers of "normalizing" abhorrent behavior:ReplyDelete
"I find the comparison to one of the planet's most reviled humans in history absolutely revolting"ReplyDelete
You know, Doc, Hitler wasn't always 1945 post-Auschwitz Hitler. He started out as an ideologue with a book and no deaths yet on his tab.
Do we have to wait until someone has killed six million people before we can compare them to Hitler?
I'd think we'd all prefer to stop the next Hitler at the "1925" stage, rather than at the 1945 stage. No? And we can't really do that if we ignore noteworthy similiarities in order to avoid offending sensibilities.
I'm calling Godwin's law here,Delete
Jon - I have read extensively on Hitler's rise to power, and though there are similarities, the comparison of 1920s-30s Germany to 2016 USA is unfair.Delete
People are scared, Jon. Making this comparison is not helping.
Samantha: Mike Godwin himself recently said "If you’re thoughtful about it and show some real awareness of history, go ahead and refer to Hitler or Nazis when you talk about Trump. Or any other politician."Delete
Even so, Godwin's Law wouldn't apply given that Hitler and comparisons thereto were brought up by Our Gracious Host himself in his post.
Yes, but our host said that comparison's to 1930's Germany are unfair. Do people really believe Trump is going to start building concentration camps and herding people into them? I'm not seeing it.Delete
Trump wants to compile a database of American Muslims. That's close enough. I'm sure some of his followers, and probably his advisor Steven Bannon, would be all for putting people in camps.Delete
Obviously, the overall situation of Germany of the 20s/30s isn't what is going to be repeated. What will be repeated is the use of Hitlerian propaganda and rhetoric, tactics of building and enforcing compliance, etc.
Yugoslavia in the 80s and 90s wasn't identical to Germany in the 20s and 30s, but they still had a strongman building ethnic and religious animus, building towards genocidal activities.
Also, my point is we don't want to get to a situation that resembles Germany in the 30s and 40s. If we let it get to that point, it's too late. It's bad enough having a situation that resembles in any way Hitler in the 1920s, a bigoted ideologue with a following, some of which is willing to be violent.Delete
Hopefully not. But it wouldn't be the first time in our history that decent, law-abiding residents of the USA (most of them legally citizens, and almost all the rest of them legal immigrants), were forcibly relocated from their homes, and wrongfully incarcerated, based *solely* on their ethnicity. Brief history lesson here:Delete
This comes to mind only because the anti-Muslim sentiment generated in recent times, and Team Trump's choosing to make this a campaign issue, is fueled by a similar situation. In 1942, the USA was at war with Japan. Today, we are at war with radical Islamic terrorists. Sadly, painting everyone of a particular ethnicity or religion with the same broad brush, and convincing the public to see their own neighbors as "the enemy," *has* happened before.
Adding to previous post...these irrational fears aren't necessarily a function of "partisan politics." Franklin D. Roosevelt, who issued Exec. Order 9066, was a Democrat, also known for the "New Deal," the beginning of liberal social programs in the USA.Delete
We should have learned from our mistakes in WW2 and not repeat them in the 21st century.Delete
The internment of Japanese-Americans was stupid and largely due to longstanding regional racism on the West Coast, not due to any actual threat. (Japanese-Americans in the eastern part of the country were unlikely to be interned.) While we were interning Japanese Americans here, other Japanese-Americans were earning the Medal of Honor heroically fighting for us in Europe.
It was stupid, and stupid unthinking fear and bigotry are no excuse for repeating the mistake now.
Especially seeing as how Trump voters are mostly in places that face little threat from terrorism. The most likely locations that face threats from Muslims are densely populated urban areas which didn't vote from Trump.
So, what do you propose on doing? More riots? Sigh.Delete
@ Jon - I know you *meant* "locations that face threats from radical Islamic terrorists," not "threats from Muslims." :)Delete
(I live in a major city, and have lots of neighbors, colleagues, and co-workers who practice the Muslim faith. It's the *terrorists* that scare *all* of us).
Yes, Scarab, that. Sorry.Delete
Doc, you're not even a US citizen, why does this thing bother you so much?ReplyDelete
Do you think it is easy for anyone to watch this from any distance and not have some opinion? We are all part of the same planet and we all have a stake in what happens anywhere in the world. The United States is a pretty big power and our President is pretty involved in every other country. They can start wars, they set policies.Delete
It looks to me like Doc cares about the USA and its people and he is seeing things from where he sits and felt the need to use his journalistic powers. He is also a doctor and well....as a doctor I would think he sees a sickness that needs fixing.
I was never a trump supporter in the first place neither was a Hillary supporter. When the election came me and my family felt that it was better to have a republican in the white house than a democrat. Now that Trump has won the election I feel that we still have to show a little respect. I understand that a lot of people don't want him for president but he's still going to be our president! The things that are happening right now are truly saddening! I would be saying the exact same things if this was happening with Hillary Clinton. Not because I like them, not because I was a supporter, but because I'm an American who wants our leaders to succeed! Don't we all want that? All these protests and riots are only slowing things and putting unacceptable disrespect towards our current president and our future one.Delete
Why am I interested? Because this was the US presidential election, not a little town hall meeting. Do not be so naïve to think that the US exists in a bubble. This election will have a ripple effect on the rest of the world, and we have all been watching with great interest.Delete
Hear, hear! The Kingdom of Bastardia knows no geographical boundaries. We are all citizens of the world.Delete
Sorry, doc, but you're in no position to criticize, opine, nor dictate anything on how Americans should act after the recent general election. Let us tax paying Americans take care of this problem.Delete
Really? I had no idea that one had to be an American citizen to express an opinion on a matter on international significance.Delete
That's the problem with your thinking. You think everyone's an idiot who can't read why you're against Trump. If he wasn't an anti-vaccine you'd be applauding him.Delete
Is that so? Please tell me more about what I think.Delete
The fact is that you have no idea what I think. I stated very clearly above that if I had the chance to vote for Trump, I would not have. If you honestly believe that his stance on vaccines would be the one and only thing to make me vote against him, then you are indeed one of the idiots you claim I believe you are.
Now please do go on and tell me what else I think. And while you're at it, tell me all about how you, as a taxpaying American citizen, are "taking care of this problem".
Good article. Read it past the headline.ReplyDelete
"The most important thing in a functional society is a well-informed public. What we have now is not only uninformed but misinformed masses."
I got so excited I almost peed myself. Fortunately I took your advice and read the article (I'm a stickler for researching things that sound too good or bad to be true). Sigh - no Bernie to the rescue, but yes, a good article.Delete
No. You don't get to tell me, an American and a woman of color who was sexually assaulted a little over a year ago, how to react to a President who gloats about assaulting women and is fine with people at his rallies chanting, "we hate Muslims, we hate blacks, we want our great country back." This post, Doc, is akin to those patients you complain about who research a condition on the internet and then think they know more about it than you do.ReplyDelete
Protests and fighting for what we believe to be right is not helping? We should sit back and wait out the next 4 years? Think about the Civil Rights movement. Should people have just sat back and waited for a government which believed in equality? Come on. Gandhi said to be the change you wish to see in world. Change does not come from sitting back and waiting for it.
The problem here is that this country voted this President elect in. It didn't just happen by a whim of chance and protesting isn't going to change it one bit.Delete
Especially violent protests. Violence, vandalism, arson, blocking freeways will not undo,the results of an election. And it certainly won't persuade anyone to their point of view. If our constitution and bill of rights mean anything, then we know there are protections to individuals against an over-reaching government. I am not in a panic over the election. Frankly, what frightens me more are violent mobs. This is how revolutions start, and those don't always end as well as the American Revolution. Case in point - the Russian Revolution.Delete
C.M., I totally agree that making our voices heard, whether through peaceful protests and acts of civil disobedience, lobbying or petitioning our elected officials, or campaigning for candidates who supported the cause, has been the determining force in the Civil Rights movement.Delete
We often think of the "civil rights movement" as culminating with the Civil Rights Act of 1964. But it was in 1920 when our Constitution was amended to allow women to be treated as full citizens, and to have the right to vote. After 1964, we saw the Americans with Disabilities Act in 1990. In recent years, we saw legalization of same-sex unions, first in the states, then on the federal level in 2015.
But making our voices heard to accomplish all this happened through *legislative* change...the drafting and passage of new laws (and, in many cases, the repeal of old laws that were unjust). We Americans held our elected and appointed officials accountable for hearing our voices, and representing the wishes of the people they were charged with serving.
But an election is different. We *had* the chance to choose, so our right of due process was never violated. Protesting a fair election by "He's not MY President" makes no sense.
What we *need* to say is, "OK, now you're going to be OUR President. You're hired! You work for US now. So, we expect you to reconsider some of YOUR ideas, and pay attention to OURS."
CM - I'm going to assume you didn't read anything that I wrote, either the article or the comments, because I have said repeatedly that I am not telling you how to think or feel. I will let you read my comments to others here for clarification.Delete
It is clear you also haven't listened to Trump lately and are simply regurgitating your anger at his win. He came out very clearly telling his supporters to stop the hate. Look up his 60 Minutes interview. It's very clear that he does not condone the hateful things that *some* of his supporters have been saying and doing.
And what Scarab said too.
I agree the election was fair, however, saying that we elected Trump is not fair. The outdated and flawed system of the electoral college is what got Trump in. We can't and should't try to undo the results. What we should do is peaceful protests against hatred like we were doing before Trump even announced his bid for the office. We should actively push for legislation that changes this system. Demand a change from the 2 party system and the campaign style that we use now. Instead 3-4 candidates should stand up their and give us their opinions on the issues, not what their party says their stance is. We need more than only 51 percent to be the majority. It needs to be closer to 75 percent. As it stands we 50 percent of Americans do not agree with the policies of most of our past and present Presidents. We need to let the Republicans know that the reason they are in is because 50% of us felt like their voices weren't heard, and unless they fix that we will drop them too. I plan to oppose any of Trump's policies that take us backwards. I will hope they fail, but if Trump listens to us and he pushes legislation that helps equality and the economy I'll back those 100%. Don't let your hatred of Trump himself blind you when he does something good. I voted Hillary because regardless of the people behind the policies Hillary knows how to work the system to get what she promised through. Trump does not. Its the same reason I would ask Doc B to remove my appendix rather than asking a plumber.Delete
I've said it before - if the Democats had nominated someone other than HIllary, there's an excellent chance we wouldn't have President Elect Trump. If someone like Jum Webb had been the candidate, I would have happily voted for him, and I think many others who held their noses and bored Trump would have done likewise. And again, I didn't vote for Trump.ReplyDelete
Clinton should have dropped out after they released the DNC e-mails. I was hoping Elizabeth Warren would run.Delete
And, if the Republicans had done a better job of actually getting themselves focused to support *one* or maybe *two* candidates with reasonably moderate views, that would have worked too. IMHO, there were several who had both the political experience and more open minds who would have been better choices.Delete
That too, Scarab. With 16 of 'em in the running, I wasn't optimistic there would be a good outcome. So we ended up witnTrump v. Clinton. Oh joy.Delete
I still can't wrap my mind around the fact that there apparently wasn't enough real leadership in the party to stand up and say, at some point in time before the convention, "Look, we respect your right to run for office if you want to, you've got enough money to finance your own campaign and promote your agenda in the media, but you're going to have to do it as an independent, since you are NOT what the Republican Party stands for." The fact that such a great number of Republican leaders and elected officials publicly disassociated themselves from Trump, boycotted the convention, etc. clearly shows that sentiment. I just don't understand why they didn't act on it when it *could* have made a real difference.Delete
because they didn't realize he was a serious threat until it was too late.Delete
The vast majority of the people that voted for Hillary Clinton couldn't explain a single one of her policies or where she stands on certain issues. Most people voted for her either because they wanted to see first female president or because they are too brain dead to be able to see through the lamestream media's lies and fear-mongering and believed everything they heard on TV. Both of those reasons for voting for her are reckless and ignorant as hell. It's a damn good thing the electoral college is around because if it wasn't, a whole bunch of idiots that live in a few big cities could determine the outcome for the rest of the entire country by getting the popular vote. I'd say 60% of her "supporters" couldn't tell you a single policy of hers. Trump won. Fair and square. She called him and conceded and is now urging everyone to come together and move forward. Now all she has to do is pray to God that she doesn't get another investigation launched on her when President Trump takes office. I'm praying to God she does. She is responsible for countless deaths around the world and crimes against humanity.Delete
Anonymous15 November 2016 at 09:09Delete
"The vast majority of the people that voted couldn't explain a single policy or where their candidate stands on certain issues." There, fixed it for you. You're welcome.
the GOP has spent 30 YEARS investigating her. when is enough enough?Delete
Investigated again? Why? The republicans cut the budget in the millions on security to those offices all around the world, including Benghazi and she tried to warn them. Then they go and blame her when something goes wrong.Delete
You want to talk about her policies? Really....seriously?? What did Donald Trump talk about? Building walls, getting rid of illegals, fixing the health care and now all he's doing is back peddling all of it.
Neither here nor there. Riots aren't going to fix this. We're stuck with this man.
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Anon - No. This is not the forum for that.Delete
Anon: you mean repealing health care reform.Delete
I've been seeing a lot of calls to abolish the Electoral College. It is not just a matter of passing legislation. The method of choosing a president in spelled out in the US Constitution, so it would take an amendment to change it. To do that, the House of Representatives and the Senate would both have to pass such an amendment by a 2/3 majority vote, followed up by a vote of each state legislature as to approve or not. It takes 3/4 of the states to approve it. I would venture to guess that the smaller states would be loathe to lessen their influence in the matter of choosing a president. We have the system because the US is a constitutional republic, not a pure democracy.ReplyDelete
You would need a Constitutional Convention not amendment.Delete
There would still need to be a vote on any proposed amendments.Delete
Congress can propose constitution amendments by a 2/3 vote. None of the amendments that have been passed have proposed by a constitutional convention.Delete
Barbara Boxer, California senator, is going to give it a shot;:Delete
Good luck trying to push that through.Delete
Part of me says "go high." Part of me says "burn them to a cinder and salt the earth so that no poisonous seed can take root again."ReplyDelete
I think I may have reached an anger stage of the grief process
No, not violent. I'm at the point of just standing back and letting the world burn, hypothetically speaking. I and other progressive lefties won't be doing the burning; we'll just let the Republicans in power prove, once and for all, what a bunch of selfish, greedy, misogynistic, racist, homophobic dicks they really are. They're off to a good start with the appointment of Bannon, and Trump wanting to make his kids unpaid National Security Advisors with top secret security clearances; that's good for the family business, but not much else.Delete
Nah. President elect Trump is anti-establishment who may actually tackle a tough problem instead of kicking it down the road like the usual do nothing, politically sackless, career politicians. Secondly, he pisses in the breakfast bowl of the far left media and their tears are delicious as he gives the finger to political correctness. Finally, Hillary has so many scandals, that she should be in prison let alone be a candidate for the White House.Delete
the only problem Trump will tackle is not enough money being funneled into Trump's pocket.Delete
Half of rioters in Portland didn't vote.ReplyDelete
Can't edit- it's "arrested protesters,"Delete
When will Hillary say "stop it"?Delete
Hillary already said "Stop it" in her concession speech, Anon. Perhaps you should listen to it.Delete
You're wrong doc. Here's the entire transcript of Clinton's concession speech. http://fortune.com/2016/11/09/hillary-clinton-concession-speech-transcript/Delete
Part of her speech:Delete
Our campaign was never about one person, or even one election. It was about the country we love and building an America that is hopeful, inclusive, and big-hearted. We have seen that our nation is more deeply divided than we thought. But I still believe in America, and I always will. And if you do, then we must accept this result and then look to the future. Donald Trump is going to be our president. We owe him an open mind and the chance to lead. Our constitutional democracy enshrines the peaceful transfer of power.
We don’t just respect that. We cherish it. It also enshrines the rule of law; the principle we are all equal in rights and dignity; freedom of worship and expression. We respect and cherish these values, too, and we must defend them.
The woman was very gracious.
Anon 2 above - in case you missed the important part, I'll re-quote it: "But I still believe in America, and I always will. And if you do, then we must accept this result and then look to the future. Donald Trump is going to be our president. We owe him an open mind and the chance to lead."Delete
Now if you're talking about telling the protesters to stop, then yes she should do that too.
Have any of the celebrities that vowed to leave the US actually left? They've had a week to make their arrangements - what are they waiting for? For those remaining, Mr Trump is their President, they need to get over it and do their part as Americans to support their country. In fact, we all do.Delete
I have heard that there are business owners who are in the process of leaving the country and taking their businesses with them.Delete
there are also reports that rural areas are having more complaints of "militias" intimidating landowners.
so I guess gilded age in cities and wild west age in rural areas = making America grate, again.
Those that are being arrested in Portland Oregon are the Anarchists, they hijacked protests.. If you want facts ask a local instead of half wit bullcrap news, that will try to make any story click bait..Delete
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I posted this comment at the following link, and repurpose it here. You might want to go there to get context of Higgs statements opposing Trump.ReplyDelete
Higgs: To me, Trump has been and remains a complete crap shoot.
Higgs: Elected officials and political appointees come and go, but the Deep State grinds on, seemingly inexorably, almost oblivious to who occupies formal offices, able to get huge, regular infusions of funds from the Treasury.
Mr. Higgs, I'm surprised at your post. You have been admirable in calling out the evils of government. But, above you take solace from the stable, regular corruption which allows the deep state to suck wealth from the peasants. Instead of "crapshoot" Trump, you would be happier to elect Hillary, the leader of the deep state, or possibly the appointed pawn.
Just what form was opposition to the deep state supposed to take? A regular politician embedded in the DS? Someone beholden to the contributions of the DS and subject to ruin when the DS focused its slanders upon him? Romney was a truly nice guy with a fortune of about $250 million. He withered under the attacks made upon him, blinking at the ferocity and untruth that came from his former, supposed friends in government. The public silently took notice.
When Trump appeared, his vulgarity and simple statements were a recommendation, not a fault. Personally, I liked Cruz and Jindal as solid people who I thought had a better chance than Trump at winning the general election. In retrospect, they would have had little chance of surviving the lies of the Clinton machine.
About Trump's vulgarity. Dems proclaim themselves to be the party of nuance. Whatever they say or do, they claim that "context" makes it OK. Hillary sets up a private, hidden email system for hiding her machinations. Nuance requires that we regard this as merely a desire for polite privacy, a mistake, a minor error in judgment, rather than the felony it really is.
But, regarding Trump and the Republicans, the Dems are the party of extreme literalism. Trump's locker-room talk becomes proof of sexual assualt. Calling one woman fat is a mysogynistic slur against all women. When Pubs "target" a goal, they are supposedly planning murder.
I would rather have the vulgar Trump in office, possibly fighting the deep state, than have Hillary in office as the leader of the deep state and the goal of one world, one supreme political class with total power. If the DS wins again, the public will again silently take notice. Fear that Trump will be unsuccessful at reform.
to be unsuccessful, you first have to try.Delete
the republicans are the party of extreme doublespeak. "seek a second amendment solution" = vote.
Doc, I love you! You summed it up perfectly for me! Everything you said has been how I've been feeling! I am definitely not a Trump supporter, but this crap has gotten waaaaay out of hand!ReplyDelete
I live in the US and Trump will never be my president. We said we would move and my husband is negotiating for a job outside the US. We will return when Trump is gone. Trump is different than any other president -- he simply is not fit to be president. No need to count the ways.ReplyDelete
It's not like Hillary is fit to be president, either. This is the worst presidential choice I've had in my lifetime. Neither one of got my vote. Ugh.Delete
You lost. Get over it.Delete
but I don't WANT to be better than the republicans.Delete
We are the party of fiscal responsibility.Delete
There are a couple of points I want to make, then I must withdraw from the fray here. This was truly the BEST discussion I've seen at this site & thank you, Doc, for finally getting political. But despite your claims that tweets & emails are more effective than protests, I must call bullshit on that. I know better, from historical & personal experience.ReplyDelete
1) PLEASE, folks, don't trivialize or disparage marching & protesting -- they are fundamental American rights. The right to assemble for public protest, to make your opinions heard, is so important that when the Founding Fathers composed the Constitution & failed to explicitly state those rights when the document was was first signed in Sept. 1787, the citizens rose up & DEMANDED that their individual rights be enumerated. And it still took 4 more years before the 1st Amendment & the rest of the Bill of Rights was finally ratified.
Does anyone here really believe that letter-writing alone would have accomplished that?
Because of the 1st Amendment, 176 years later, more than 200,000 people of all stripes were able to gather on the national mall in Washington as part of a long & continuing struggle that we now call the Civil Rights movement. Aug. 28, 1963 was promoted as a March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom, not for "civil rights". But those rights were on the minds of everyone who turned up that day & millions more who watched on tv or listened on the radio. For all of my childhood, Aug. 28 was celebrated in my family's home as an unofficial holiday. I was not quite 3 when the march on Washington took place, so I wasn't there. But my Lebanese-Filipino mother & my Bajan-British father dropped me at my grandma's apt. & drove from NY to DC to participate in that that great public protest. And their efforts were not in vain.
The news coverage of that rally traveled around the globe & showed the world that the movement wasn't just a Black thing (although we were "Colored" back then), that a substantial number of Americans of all races supported the struggle of people of color for the same rights that White Americas enjoyed. That huge public protest sent a signal to the president, Congress & the Supreme court that ultimately changed the course of this country & culture. And THAT was achieved in an era without smart phones, social media or the internet.
THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR THE POWER OF PUBLIC PROTEST! Tweets & emails will NEVER achieve the gravitas or illustrate the determination of large groups of like-minded people showing up & standing together to express their fundamental beliefs. Because every knows a tweet costs you nothing. An email requires less effort than wiping your ass. Tens of thousands of folks clapped back at Dump on Twitter during his campaign -- & fuck-all good it did. But getting out in the streets, gathering together with those who share your values & showing up to protest anti-Muslim bigotry, ethnic slurs against Mexicans, the objectification of women & all the hateful views Dump has expressed over the last 18 mos. WILL make a difference. It will let Dump & his cronies know that We The People are not having the hate. And it will let all the Repubs who are reckless enough to support his future proposals know that they face being booted out of office come the mid-term elections.
And I am entitled to talk this shit because over the last 2 days, I got up off my ass & put my feet where my fingers had been. I stopped typing & took it to the streets. On Monday I went out & demonstrated. All it took was a few mouse clicks the night before to hook up with a local group. I joined a gathering at a mosque that ultimately included about 40 people. First we net at the mosque for a few words from the imam, then prayers. Then I got to hear hear first-hand accounts from Muslims who are A) SERIOUSLY afraid (esp. the women) of the hateful bullying & threats that have spiked since Dumps' election & B) shocked that they have received so little public support against such bigotry.
Never forget that Dump Is Directly Responsible For The Uptick in Hate Speech & Attacks on Minorities Happening Right Now!!! He didn't start the fire -- anti-Muslim sentiment has been growing here since 9/11. But Dump & the cable news shows that kissed his ass & gave him daily free air time for 18 mos. made it socially acceptable to talk about banning Muslims from entering the country. Cheeto said those things knowing full well that he was pouring gasoline on a brush fire. And the bigots who think like he does loved him & lifted him up for it. So yeah, the alt-right bastards DESERVE to be publicly denounced for their immoral, anti-American beliefs just as loudly as anyone here would denounce those who support NAMBLA. Or bestiality.
I hadn't been to a mosque in a couple of years. Reading the stories online or seeing them on the news has been painful this past week. But being there Monday & hearing so many Muslim females, from jr. high school girls to grandmothers, talk about how they've been insulted, talk about having White strangers (even women!) reach for their hijabs, talk about people yelling at how "Dump is going to deport all you terrorists!" had me balling like I haven't cried since my dad died in 2004. Seeing the pain in the faces of parents of the young ones, how much it hurt them that they could do nothing to protect their children from such abuse, lit a fire in my belly that burned away any doubts I had at the importance of taking it to the streets & protesting Dump's bigotry for the world to see.
We sang protest songs as we marched several blocks to a local college where numerous anti-Dump protests across the nation was already in progress. There were maybe 200 people gathered there. And it remained peaceful. There were no arrests that I saw. There was even one guy sulking against a wall in a Trump Pence t-shirt. (And his ass didn't have shit to say! Funny how meek the bigots are when they're out numbered.)
After about 90 min. of speeches & discussions, our group went back to the mosque, where the imam's wife & her sisters had laid out a gorgeous spread. Some folks peeled off & left on the way back, but a couple of dozen of us sat down to break bread & really talk & get to know each other. It it was glorious & beyond inspiring.
I was overwhelmed by the number of people who thanked me, repeatedly, for just showing up & speaking out, for putting on a hijab & joining them in their protest. (And I have serious issues with the hijab -- to me, it's like choosing to wear shackles because I'm descended from slaves. But I never enter a mosque without one, out of respect.) They were so moved that all of us non-muslims (there was even an elderly Jewish couple there) showed up & stood with them to protest against the injustices being inflicted on them. Even if the footage never makes the news or YouTube, I know I've made a positive difference in the of people I didn't even know 2 days ago by simply exercising my 1st Amendment rights. That I've helped show the world that hate didn't win when Dump got elected. That the majority of Americans are not bigots & will NOT let Cheeto legislate bigotry from the oval office.
If you feel the same way, then turn off the computer, get off your ass & PROTEST! Rallies & demonstrations have been the cornerstone of EVERY major change in America's political history because They Work!
#2) Don't believe everything you see on tv or read online. FACT CHECK the stories about protestors "rioting". They called the OWS protests riots too, but they weren't. Cops get paid to arrest people -- if they stand around observing a peaceful protest for too long, the brass accuses them of not doing their jobs. So they're always going to find people to arrest at a protest.
But a few guys tossing bottles at police cars does not constitute a riot. Even burning an unoccupied police car doesn't rise to the level of rioting IMO. A police car isn't more valuable than someone's life or their right to protest. Whenever large groups gather in public, you will find a few assholes who want to start trouble. But if 3000 people are marching down 5th Ave. to protest Dump's bigotry & 15 or 20 of them end up in a brawl, the police will tell the press it was a "riot". Then the press will report that 75 people were arrested at an anti-Trump riot. But the truth will end up being that 20 people were arrested for fighting & the rest were arrested while peacefully protesting. None of which adds up to a riot.
The media exists to support the status quo, which is now about normalizing Dump as prez & his agenda as policy in the eyes of the American people, so the res of the world will accept him. That's what Dump fears the most -- if a large percentage of America refuses to accept hims as president until he explicitly renounces his bigotry, foreign leaders won't take him seriously. And his presidency will be doomed to fail. But don't let the media taint your views of the protests, esp. if you haven't participated in one yourself.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
— The 1st Amendment to the U.S. Constitution
With all due respect RC (and you know I mean exactly that), throwing bottles and burning a police car DOES constitute a riot. I find it hard to believe that you could actually condone that sort of behaviour at a supposedly "peaceful demonstration".Delete
I've seen videos of some of the protests, the "peaceful demonstrations" as you'd call it. The anti-Trump people are cursing at Trump supporters, making rude gestures, and yes some of them are acting violently. You can't possibly believe that all of the demonstrations are the peaceful kind in which you participated. If you do, then you are blind.
Also, if you believe the media is "supporting the status quo" by supporting anything Trump has said, then you're sadly mistaken. I have seen nothing but anti-Trump rhetoric everywhere I see, from US outlets (except Fox News, of course) and international ones.
It sounds like your march made people feel better. That's wonderful, and I'm glad you took part in it and shared it with us. But don't think for one second that changed anyone's mind.
As I said above, if you really want to get your opinion out there, make it known to your politicians. You can read more about it here: http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/12/politics/utah-woman-twitter-advice/index.html
It will be the folks in congress and the senate who will keep Trump at bay. They were elected to serve your needs and to represent your wishes. Make it known to THEM how you feel.
Thank you, Doc. I absolutely agree that throwing rocks and bottles is a riot. In addition to throwing rocks and bottles (in which people can be and are injured, and that's assault) in addition to breaking windows and starting fires, and blocking freeways, is. a. riot. It is all lawless behavior. You are not going to persuade others to your point of view with this behavior. At least one rioter in Portland who was arrested had a cache of Molotove cocktails. Yeah, that's real peaceful.Delete
As to keeping Trump at bay - this is why there are three branches of government. It's supposed to operate as a system of checks and balances. It doesn't always work, but if the legislators don't do their jobs, their can be fired in two years. Except senators, only 1/3 of them come up for re-election every 2 years, and then they have a six year term They're a little tougher to persuade.
Electoral vote doesn't happen til 12/19.. two major things can happen, they can vote in Clinton and or if I remember correctly force the congress to choose.. This is why protesting and petitions are being signed.. If they can push the electoral college hand they can get a third party pushed in by congress.. Shit might even be Senate.. I'm from a blue state doing a whole lot of protesting, people are pissed. My bosses are die hard neo cons and pushed Trump bullshit, well business there died the day he was picked.. No friendly fire either, just saying why people are protesting..ReplyDelete
It is very unlikely that the electors in the electoral college will change their votes. Trump currently has 290 electoral votes with 270 needed to win. Michigan, with 16 EVs, still hasn't been called. Clinton currently has 232. There would need to 38 electors changing their votes for her to win. How likely do you think that to be? The electors are not random people chosen for this task. They are party loyalists. So I believe that this is a very thin hope. Hillary is not going to be president.Delete
Doc I'm going to try on an analytical and emotional level.. We have a hail Mary it's our only chance, do we try or not try..ReplyDelete
Young man comes in to your ER and has just coded, bullet wounds prove to you that your odds are almost zilch at bringing a gentleman back, do you stop or do you crack ribs and plug holes with fingers..
Yes I have seen your outcome, yes it's sad- blown, fixed, and dialated..
Ours will probably end in the same manner- can't overcome what has already happened..
But we should try none the less.
As you should continue to try..
One day we might both beat the houses odds.. If we both stop now we all might suffer the regret of not fighting..
Divided we stand united we fall.. And I will never call him president, I will continue to live my life and push my kids forward and continue to save people.. That orange monster won't change me..
Yes, I would crack that man's chest (and I did exactly that just a few days ago), knowing he would most likely die (which he did). However, the two situations are not at all comparable.Delete
I will answer your hypothetical with one of my own, which is completely comparable to the Trump situation - what would your reaction have been if 8 years ago someone had said to you, "Barack Obama will NEVER be my president!"
There are four possible answers, and I can almost guarantee I know what yours would be.
"I will answer your hypothetical with one of my own, which is completely comparable to the Trump situation - what would your reaction have been if 8 years ago someone had said to you, 'Barack Obama will NEVER be my president!'" Doc, that's exactly what happened and we got 8 years of obstructionism in government by Republicans. Honestly, the BEST outcome of a Trump presidency would be complete obstruction of any of his policies. Unfortunately it isn't going to happen. Right now, they have a majority across the board to implement every regressive, backwards policy they want.Delete
You also said upthread that, "It is clear you also haven't listened to Trump lately and are simply regurgitating your anger at his win. He came out very clearly telling his supporters to stop the hate. Look up his 60 Minutes interview. It's very clear that he does not condone the hateful things that *some* of his supporters have been saying and doing." Well, if we believed that it would be one thing, but at all of his pre-election rallies he encouraged violence from the crowd toward anyone who showed the slightest tendency to disagree with his "platform". His staff assaulted a reporter. He yelled for people to be thrown out. He said he'd like to punch people himself. He is surrounding himself with and appointing people to positions in his Cabinet who are as hateful and spiteful as he is.
I assume you don't follow US politics quite as closely as many of us here do, but please trust us when we say the man is mentally unfit for office. Christ, he can be baited with a tweet and can't ignore any perceived slight.
The election was fair, the people that wanted to vote voted. The vote was done the way our country does it. Now people may not like the out come and that is ok. But that does not give them the right to protest without a permit, act like 2 year olds and throw a fit, destroy peoples property, and hurt people.Delete
Hillary conceaded and was very respectful about it. I am not a Hillary fan but I appreciate how she handled the out come. Now her supports and supports of the other candidates need to get on with life and act like mature adults.
As the USA we need to show other countries that we can come together and support the President Elect Trump with respect. I was never an Obama fan but he was elected our President for 8 years and now he is ready to hand Our Country over to another with respect. This is how it is done and we need to be respectful of the process even if we do not agree with it.